Fisheries Committee on April 1st, 2009

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[A voice]

No, it's not.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

No, actually, Mr. Weston, and I'll comment on that specifically. It's that the barriers between provinces are finally coming down, and it is a point that's actually worth noting. If we are to do as an industry that which everyone seems to goad or coax us to do, which is to drop the barriers and act in common cause, someone has to start the process.

I don't mean to diminish it in any way, but the lobster industry in Newfoundland and Labrador, relatively speaking, is a shadow of what it is in P.E.I., Nova Scotia, Quebec, and New Brunswick, yet this effort is being led out of an organization from St. John's, Newfoundland, an organization that is playing a major role and in which you have complete and utter confidence.

What an absolutely terrible time to be taking away that guiding force when we're actually starting to do what so many have asked us to do for so long.

I appreciate your comments. I'll turn it over now to Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Norma, you mentioned that there are conservation measures in some areas that don't work in others. I'd like you to elaborate a bit on that. It's a big issue with this committee and it's a big issue in the fishery. I'd just like you to comment.

[Norma Richardson]

Again, I'll go back to what I said earlier. The conservation method has to be bought into by the stakeholders, by the people involved, and not necessarily.... We have our own--

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Not from the top down.

[Norma Richardson]

Yes, not from the top down. It has to be from the bottom up. When we started ours, I'd say that 98% of the fishermen agreed it was something they would like to try. We've been doing it for 10 years now. It's been working. We've had 100% compliance since then.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

And dockside monitoring, which--

[Norma Richardson]

Dockside monitoring is not on the table because of the cost, of course, but then there's also the number of monitors that would have to be in place. We find that they can't even do a good job now, when it's groundfish. They can't get to where they need to be. As well, when the day boats that are lobster fishing come in at roughly the same time, between 2 p.m. and 6 p.m., let's say, I think trying to get that number of people in different ports all along the coast to do that would be almost impossible.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

The problem is that you have too many dollars coming out of the fishermen's pockets in order for them to abide by rules that they did not agree with from the start.

[Norma Richardson]

Exactly.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

You mentioned, of course, something that this committee certainly supports, and that's the seal hunt. We're having some difficulty worldwide with that. Could you just put a statement on the record about how you feel about it, what effect it has on the fishery, and what it did to the groundfishery?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

As Mr. Blais puts his hat on....

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, as Mr. Blais puts his hat on.

Mr. Blais missed your first statement on that. We appreciate the fact that you're so aware of his leadership in this area.

[Norma Richardson]

Exactly. It was great to see the hat.

The seal population where we are is astronomical. We're not that far from Sable Island. We have some of the local islands where the seals congregate and breed. We see them around the lobster traps. Our guys have problems with them taking bait and whatnot, so it is of great concern.

We're under a moratorium and have been since 1992. Our groundfish are just not coming back. We don't see our cod coming back. We don't see anything happening. It's not because we're fishing it, because we don't have any to fish. We still believe it's the seal population.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

On the cod, it's probably because the seals are eating them.

[Norma Richardson]

The seals are eating them. It's 600 pounds of fish a day that they eat, so it's a little much.

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

Can I expand a little on that? Am I allowed? I'll put on my fish manager hat for groundfish.

Yes, we've been in a moratorium since 1992. We have a very small halibut fishery and a very small pollock fishery. That's all we have now in 4W, our designated NAFO area. Yes, we helped to diminish the stock, and yes, there were a lot of bad decisions, but we've stopped fishing and it's going down, down, down. The natural mortality is terrible. It's never going to come back. I'm not going to hold my breath for it.

What's even worse is that in 4X they're going down the same road we are. They were just told that their quota of cod is going to be almost half of what they had the year before. There are so many worms in the cod that they have a problem selling them because it's too labour intensive.

You should have seen the faces around the table. I've looked at them. We already went through this. They're like, “What do you mean?” They're saying, “We can't live on a bycatch fishery, so what does this mean? You're going to shut us down?” This is Southwest Nova that we're talking about, where they actually do have a fishery, but they're on the verge. I've been watching over the years and they're on the verge of going into a moratorium the same as we did. They're getting more and more haddock, but they can't catch the haddock because of the cod.

Again, they blame it on the seals. We already have the evidence and have already lived through it. We know it's the seals. Now we have another area that's going to be closed, in my opinion, because of the seals.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask a few questions, and my colleague, Raynald Blais, will most certainly have some as well.

You seem certain, Ms. Richardson, of the impact the seals are having on lobster. This morning, Mr. Spinney was unable to answer the question with any certainty.

I would also like to know if you have noticed the presence of green crab in your region or the disappearance of eelgrass. Some time ago, the Committee decided to ask for an investigation on the disappearance of eelgrass in certain marine areas, namely in Hudson Bay. I am however also learning that eelgrass serves as a habitat for lobster in certain areas and that eelgrass is destroyed by codium. The experts from the Institut des sciences de la mer de Rimouski might be able to verify this.

But you should nevertheless first assure yourselves that you do not have a green crab problem and that the eelgrass is not threatened. The Institut de recherche could help you determine that.

[Norma Richardson]

Well, we do have green crab, but maybe not to the extent you do. We have seen it, and there have been proposals from some of the buyers, the fish plants, to catch it and market it. We're not sure where that's going. They don't have the under development species board any longer. We had a board to take the proposal to. We don't have that anymore, or it hasn't gone past that stage.

We haven't heard a lot about the algae problem, and I didn't understand what you meant by the disappearance of zones. You said zones. What did you mean by that?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

That is exactly what I said. It is believed that eelgrass provides breeding sites for lobster and that, with the presence of codium, these breeding grounds are disappearing. Is this something you have noticed?

[Norma Richardson]

We don't have as much of the eelgrass, or whatever, as we previously had. So it's very possible that is something, but the fishermen haven't said too much about it.

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

Yes, they have.

[Norma Richardson]

Oh, they have, have they?