Fisheries Committee on April 1st, 2009

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

Actually, my husband has. He belongs to the Fishermen and Scientists Research Society, and he was actually asking that question. What happened to the eelgrass and how important is that, and is anybody looking at that? We've only noticed the last couple of years that a little bit is coming back, because we live right on the ocean. He had a hard time trying to find some eelgrass to put the potatoes into. If you remember years and years ago, that's what they used as insulation for the houses, right? There was loads of it. You'd just fork it up, loads of it. But where did it go, and how important is that to the ocean and the whole ecosystem of what's going on with our species now?

So they do a lot of projects. Anything like that would be something this innovation centre could do. Absolutely. It's a good idea.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, ladies. My apologies for having missed the beginning of your presentations, but I had to react to an unpopular decision in Quebec with regard to the shrimp quota that the minister announced yesterday.

First of all, the seal hat that I have brought with me bears witness to a phenomenon that has been decried or at least described by a renowned scientist and biologist in Quebec, who has stated that the seal population is too numerous and that it amounts to an uncontrolled fishery. In other words, these predators have become good fishers, or at least their fishery is not controlled. Such is the danger. We talk about the harp seal, but the grey seal is showing up more and more. It is much larger and, as an omnivore, it eats much more. When there is no longer any cod or anything else left, it will go after other species. It could be groundfish, but it could also be salmon, lobster or crab.

It is very important to take all of this into consideration. This is why committee members have unanimously already looked at the issue and reopened the file.

I have but little time left, but I would like to hear you speak about the way out. If we are here today, it is because some months ago now, alarm bells went off in Nova Scotia with regard to the prices granted fishers. Given that the recession was at our door — and is now here —, these people were wondering what disaster awaited them.

I would like you to explain to us what solutions might help us overcome the crisis that is headed our way and that will strike over the coming days or weeks.

[Norma Richardson]

You're looking at me to take this one.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

The question is simple; it is the answer that is difficult.

[Norma Richardson]

That takes a lot of thought, and it's something we've been thinking about for a long time. I don't think there are any quick solutions to getting out of this. For the short term we need some stable pricing that's workable. We need to look at the economics all the way around to see what it is actually costing us to do business, versus someone coming up and saying it costs them $100,000 to go fishing when it might cost me $50,000. What is something you can live with just to get us through this time? There has to be some stability somewhere in the whole scheme of things, and not just in the pricing.

We heard Mr. MacDonald this morning talking about how they hold their amount of lobsters. It seems that before a particular season opens there's a certain number of lobsters on the market because they've been held. Now they're getting rid of them so they can buy the newer ones and replenish their supplies. That's something that has always happened.

We also buy from the United States market and bring the product to people like Clearwater and some of the other huge buyers. I know they have markets to supply and clients they need to serve, but they also need to keep in mind that there's product here that needs to be sold as well. They should be looking at trying to manage their business with some of our businesses to kind of bring it together.

That's the best I can do with your question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Norma and Nellie, thank you very much for coming to Yarmouth to help us understand the problems that face this industry.

We heard Mr. MacDonald clearly say there's sort of a Klondike mentality when it comes to buyers in this regard. Do you agree with that sentiment? Are there too many buyers, or are there just enough buyers? Is it that simple to get a truck, load up the lobsters, and off you go? In my discussions with fishermen, they like the idea of a competitive buyers' market, whether it be Donna Rae, Clearwater, or whatever.

When he said “Klondike”, I wrote it down because I hadn't heard that expression before in the industry. I'm just wondering if you agree with that statement, or what your view is on that.

[Norma Richardson]

I'm not saying there are too many buyers. I agree with them in a sense, if it's a guy who comes in with a truck today and then he's gone and you don't see him anymore. But where we live, most of our buyers are there year after year after year, and we don't think that. The competition is healthy and we feel it's something that needs to happen. We don't want to concentrate this into one hand.

Years ago, before my time, our fishery was owned by the fish buyers or the fish plants. It was a totally owned fishery on that shore. They've gotten away from that and they're all independent. So they don't all sell to the same buyer, but they distribute it out, so they keep these guys coming back so they have competition.

But in saying that, I think there's also a little bit of loyalty to some of these people, too, and loyalty to the community, because they want to keep that money there. They don't want it moved someplace else; they're trying to keep it within the community and keep it circulating there.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Now, Norma, we heard in the Gaspé about the efforts of the individual fishermen and organizations in their conservation efforts and reducing the number of traps per boat, etc. We've also heard on P.E.I. quite clearly that a buyback option was something they would look into. Yet Mr. Spinney was clear that in LFA 34, a buyback is not on the table—at least it's not being discussed.

I'd like to know what your organization—and Guysborough, if you could speak for them, if you're aware of their concerns—thinks of a rationalization of the industry in terms of where we would reduce the effort on the water.

Also, is the 15% mortality rate that Mr. MacDonald indicated a fairly accurate figure, because we've heard Mr. Hines say they treat the lobsters like eggs on the boat? I haven't heard that expression either. Any time you handle literally thousands and thousands of lobsters, there is going to be some damage to some. I just want to know if that 15%, in your experience, is an accurate figure.

[Norma Richardson]

I'll go backwards and answer your last question first.

We don't think it's accurate.

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

We know it's not.

[Norma Richardson]

We know it's not in our particular area, especially. We've worked with the Nova Scotia Fisheries Sector Council. They have a lobster handling video and brochures, and whatnot, out on how to handle lobsters properly. That's been shown in a lot of organizations. It's an educational process.

Our boats are day boats. They're out at four in the morning and are maybe back anywhere between two and eight o'clock at night. They sell their lobster that day. So they don't hold it for any long period of time. For us, I would say we're at zero mortality in the landing process.

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

Could I add that our lobsters are hard-shelled, strong, healthy, and full of meat?

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Did you hear that? They're the best lobsters on the eastern shore.

[Norma Richardson]

Well, they are better. And we've had the buyers tell us that as well.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I rest my case.

[Norma Richardson]

You rest your case.

I guess the buyback is not on the table for us either. We have not contemplated it. We have not talked about it. Well, we've talked about it, but it's not on the table. Our guys feel like their enterprises are there. They want them there, for their children to be able to come into the industry. They want to keep it owner-operated. They want to keep it the way it has been. Hopefully, with some of the programs out there, these people can buy back in.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming all this way. I know it's a bit of a drive for you to come all the way to Yarmouth for these meetings. We do appreciate it, and we thank you for your contributions.

Your association is called the Eastern Shore Fishermen's Protection Association. What's being protected?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

I'd like to answer that.

We're protecting the fishermen!

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Fishermen or fish, I guess.

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

We're protecting the fishermen, because to every meeting I go, there's a likelihood the fishermen are going to be endangered. And I don't even mean that to be funny. I really do mean it.

We go to so many meetings, 70-odd a year, just to go and know what's coming down the tube next, because it's always something bad. It isn't often I go to a DFO meeting where they tell me something wonderful that I can take back and say, isn't that great. It's always a case of more downloading, more downloading, or a new regulation and you've got to redo your gear, or you've got to do that, or we've got a framework for this and we've got to get a plan for this, which you have to follow. Oh, and then they'll say, let's throw that in.

So we're really trying to protect the fishermen, and the fishery in their communities, so they stay there, against all the pressures that are coming down on a continuing basis.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Okay. I appreciate that clarification. I didn't know if it was conservation-based or fisherman-based.