Evidence of meeting #16 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobster.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Denny Morrow  Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association
Adrian Gloade  Fisheries Manager, Millbrook First Nation
Hubert Saulnier  President, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9
Roger LeBlanc  Secretary-Treasurer, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

We're ready to begin.

I'd like to thank our guests for joining us. This afternoon we have two more witnesses, one from the Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association, Mr. Morrow, and the other from the Millbrook First Nation, Adrian Gloade.

Gentlemen, the way that we operate here is we give ten minutes for presentations and then we proceed into questioning. The members have specific times allotted to each for questions and we try to adhere as closely as we can to the timeframe allotted.

Mr. Morrow, you're going first, so I'll ask you to proceed at this time with your presentation. Thank you.

1:10 p.m.

Denny Morrow Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Mr. Chairman, thank you for the invitation. I wasn't really sure what I should be addressing today, but I was told that lobster markets and lobster prices would be something that would be welcome if I aim some remarks at that.

Given the short time period, I've done a summary of the fall-winter season and the pricing. I could go over those points. One of our member companies has prepared an outlook for the spring, so I have that outlook and a number of the topics. I'm not sure I'll have time to cover everything. They're both important. So which one would you like me to do first? I can go to the spring, to what the outlook is, or run through--

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS

Give the most important one and go for it.

1:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

The most important one? Spring?

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS

Whichever's the most important.

1:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

Okay. I'll quickly run through the fall and winter.

I'll start out by saying that the economic financial crisis that unfolded throughout the fall of 2008 affected the demand for lobster. It was perceived in our markets as a high-end special-occasion food. The shore price fell to $2.00 to $2.25 U.S. in Maine during October. Grocery chains ran specials at unheard-of low prices in the U.S., and demand remained low, even at those store prices.

The world banking crisis was affecting seafood buyers and their distribution chain customers through tighter credit and concern about uninsured receivables.

The Atlantic Canadian lobster industry sees one of its two yearly gluts of landings during December as the Bay of Fundy fishery and the LFA 33 open. Buyers were expecting heavy landings if the weather was favourable to fishing.

This year we had almost an extra week of fishing because of the way that the last Monday of November fell on the calendar.

Pre-season market intelligence revealed a possible 50% reduction in sales to restaurants in the U.S. due to depressing economic news and the deepening recession. Economic conditions were also deteriorating in the EU and Asia.

Exports of live lobster from the Bay of Fundy to the Japanese market were affected by concerns over paralytic shellfish poisoning levels in the tomalley.

In recent years, the P.E.I. and New Brunswick-based lobster processing plants have purchased up to ten million pounds from the Southwest Nova fall-winter fishery. Shore price and the level of inventory held by the processors affect their appetites for buying during December. Discussions prior to the season opening indicated that three million pounds might be the processors' limit this year, and only then at much lower pricing.

The banks were cautioning lobster buyers about credit levels and how much risk should be assumed. With food service restaurants' demand decreasing, the live lobster buyers were hoping that low prices would stimulate holiday demand in the retail grocery sector. Everyone had concerns about a large inventory carry-over in January. Most processing plants would be closed and the economic recession would likely be worsening.

Landings were heavy, as expected, until mid-December. The season also started early, as I said, due to the position of the last Monday in November on the calendar. LFA 34 fishermen decided not to fish on Sunday in an attempt to slow the landings. The fishery opened at $3.25 Canadian per pound. Fishermen even stopped fishing for two days in early December to protest the low shore price.

By mid-December, many buyers were reporting export demand to be very slow and were nervous about the buildup of inventory. We talked about the possibility of a worst-case scenario, where a portion of a high inventory carry-over might end up in the landfill.

After December 15, mother nature intervened and we seemed to experience one storm after another. Landings fell off from early in December. As we had hoped, retail grocery holiday sales of live lobster were brisk as consumers responded to the low prices. The media focused on the plight of lobster fishermen by running almost daily stories about low prices and the hardship of fishermen. “Joe the Plumber” celebrated the Christmas-New Year's holiday by eating lobsters at home.

By early January, the P.E.I.-New Brunswick processors had purchased about six million pounds, double the expected amount, at a price around $3.90 delivered to the plant.

For many shore buyers, the first of January saw inventories cleaned out and the prospect of additional landings dismal, due to weather and a low shore price that was no incentive for fishermen to brave winter conditions.

There is always some demand for lobster exports during January, February, and March. Some shore buyers began to bid the price up for the meagre supply of newly caught lobsters and for some of the held product. Fishermen felt they had been misled and sold at too low a price in December.

Conclusion: if the weather had not affected landings from mid-December, if the processors had held to their three-million-pound prediction, if the retail grocery demand had been less robust, if the media hadn't provided so much free publicity for the product leading up to Christmas, if the fishermen had held a significant quantity, the landfill scenario and a further price crash during the winter might have been the topic of our discussion today. Hindsight is 20:20.

I can go on to the spring. Spring lobster production from Atlantic Canada is estimated at about 60 million pounds. The historic breakdown of that product usage is: processing, usually about 30 million pounds; live market, about 30 million pounds. Some of the questions we have at this point when we're thinking about prices for the spring catch include: will this year's landings be comparable to last year's, will the processors take their normal percentage, and at what price point can the processors take their share?

We have a few factors to consider. The U.S.A. summer and fall lobster production is approximately 30 million to 40 million pounds on top of the Canadian. I'll mention a few of the issues and you can question me about them. As we look ahead to spring, boat price is about $7 this week. It was $3.25 during the winter. Nobody could say right now what the boat price is going to be this spring, but it's a fair prospect that it will be lower than the $5 price that we had last spring. We expect excellent quality during the spring. We expect the landings to be at least as strong as last year. Demand is the $64 question.

How much will the processors take? The credit crunch and the buildup of inventories of some of their product is certainly going to affect how much they buy and the shore price of the product. The international economy seems to be getting worse as more and more people receive their layoff notices. Credit is a big issue for this industry, because we borrow money to buy lobsters to hold an inventory. Our customers are worldwide. In some cases, we're not able to get insurance for our receivables. So there's plenty of risk out there.

Fuel prices are a plus. They are certainly down from what they were last spring and summer. And right now we have a good exchange rate with the United States, which we did not have last spring. With regard to airlift, we're in a better position than we were in December—there will be some additional airlifts out of Halifax.

With respect to paralytic shellfish poisoning in the Japanese market, it's ironic that the U.S. FDA raised this issue last July. Lobsters can go out of Connecticut and New Jersey to Japan without being tested for PSP. Canada got included in the FDA warning. We have to do pre-testing of our product before we ship it to Japan, and then pay again when it gets to Japan for lot-by-lot testing. CFIA and DFO are working on the issue, but right now it certainly restricts our market in Japan.

These are some of the issues as we look ahead to spring, and I'll close with that.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Lawrence MacAulay

Thank you, Mr. Morrow.

Mr. Gloade.

1:15 p.m.

Adrian Gloade Fisheries Manager, Millbrook First Nation

Thank you.

I'm Adrian Gloade, speaking on behalf of Millbrook First Nation out of Truro, Nova Scotia. I represent close to 1,700 band members from our first nation, on and off reserve. We have roughly 50 commercial licences, and I'm here to talk about how the lobster fishery will affect us at home in our community.

We're kind of in a crisis right now, and we're probably meeting twice a week just on hearsay about what the lobster price is going to be this year. It seems to be having a snowball effect on my fishers about whether they want to go lobstering this year or not in the spring season. We have licences for the eastern shore, the gulf, and down here in Digby area 35.

Just about every captain is telling me he can't even field a deckhand crew now because the rest of the crew want to go snow-crabbing. There are many challenges with chief and council to try to get these fellows to take these licences. With the hurry-up effect of the snow crab season starting earlier this year, I have a captain saying he can only afford to take one person because all the rest want to go snow-crabbing. That brings us to how many will stay home--employment issues and EI issues.

Depending on what the lobster price will be, I could have as many as 21 of my workers sitting at home. I'll have to try to find work for them in our other commercial fisheries. It's going to be a tough thing to do. We're trying to meet with the band members once a week now to find a solution to this problem. As Denny said earlier, maybe the price will come back, but these are the issues I'm dealing with right now.

I'm here to basically say that it has an effect on my snow crab, tuna, swordfish, and scallop licences. We had various crews picked for certain licences, and now with deckhands not wanting to go it's putting pressure on other people to move aside. It's not a very good place to be right now.

That's about it.

1:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you very much.

Mr. Andrews.

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming in today and sharing your thoughts with us.

Denny, I'd like to talk about the inventory. We heard yesterday in P.E.I. how much inventory is on hand right now. It's hard to get a good figure--whether it's in dollars or pounds--on how much inventory is on hand right now. What would the inventory of the industry normally be right now, and how much more is on hand this year than in previous years?

1:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

For live inventory, we do have a system that we run with the AVC Lobster Science Centre in Charlottetown, where we have 12 or 13 companies submitting on a weekly basis what their live inventory is in pounds, from their tank houses. The last figure I saw, I think last Friday, was an extrapolation from those 12 companies, with an estimate of about two million live pounds.

Where does that stand versus the last two years? Two years ago we almost ran out of lobster, and we hit $15 a pound. Trying to pull some lobsters out of the water at those high prices really cut us up in the market; a lot of restaurants took lobster off the menu because of that high price.

So we're somewhere between where we were two years ago and where we were last year. The last graph that I saw showed it had flattened out and was starting to hold its own; it wasn't going down further. So I think we have a moderate inventory of live lobster right now.

If you're asking the question about processed product, that's a very important question, because, as I said, out of the 60 million pounds we expect to be landing this spring and early summer, 30 million pounds have traditionally gone to the processing sector in P.E.I. and New Brunswick. So whether or not they buy that 30 million pounds is very important. Let's say they only buy half of that, because of their high inventories; and if we dump the rest onto the live market, it will depress the price.

So we don't have an inventory system. It's up to those companies, I guess. Maybe Mr. MacAulay might have a better understanding of where those guys stand—Ocean Choice, and some of those companies—with their inventory.

I've been told that popsicle packs of frozen boiled lobster are a problem. They have pretty heavy inventory of them.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

That's where we're going.

So your live inventory is about normal. You're okay on that front.

1:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

We're okay there.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

But the real issue is how much processed inventory they have. From what you're hearing, do you have any indications, in comparison with previous years, of what's there right now? I asked Ocean Choice that exact same question yesterday, and they wouldn't tell me exactly how much inventory they have.

1:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

You have to understand the way this industry works. In Nova Scotia, we don't process much lobster, or hardly any, so we buy it primarily from the live market. Because we have too much for our market, we're selling to the processors as well. So it's in their interest, I guess, to get the product as cheaply as they can. They don't really level with us, I guess, as to what the situation is. We can guess.

I think that's one of the things that has to improve in the industry, as there's too much of this unknown stuff. We need to be working together better, and also with the harvesters. We're faced with two gluts of lobsters that come in very quickly in December and May. Somehow we have to spread that out over the year, whether it's processed product or live product, because restaurant chains and retail groceries don't want product today, but then for the next eight months they can't get anything.

So handling the inventory involves a great deal of financial risk, as well, for everybody doing it.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

When you talk about the live lobsters in pounds—and we were getting a bit of this yesterday—there are not enough facilities to hold live lobsters. Is that a fair comment, or how would you feel about that?

1:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

We think we have more than enough holding facility capacity in this region, certainly in Nova Scotia.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

So that wouldn't be an issue here in your area?

1:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

You alluded to the credit crunch that's going on right now. Do you want to explain that a little bit further? Do you have any possible solutions for the fisheries committee to look at?

1:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

I wish I could fix the banking situation. People seem to be trying to, but....

I'm aware that every company is handling it differently. The big banks extend credit. Last November, when we were looking at what price we could open at, I was getting comments from some of our buyers or companies that they only had half the credit they had last year.

Also, in the past I could sometimes exceed that credit limit, and they would stay with me. But this year, one guy called a few days before the season opened and said he just had a call from his banker and the banker had told him, this is what you've got, and don't go over it.

Also, we met with a company out of Boston that gives credit outlooks, and they warned us. We know it's difficult to get insurance for our receivables, but they warned us to be very careful about how much receivable we ran up, as some restaurant chains were going into bankruptcy.

So I don't have a solution. As time goes on and the recession runs its course, hopefully we'll get back to a better credit situation

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Would you expect there to be a role here for the government to step in, similar to what's happening with the auto industry? Is there any avenue you know of right now where you could go, or would that even be useful to you right now?

1:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

It's an interesting question.

Receivables insurance might be something.

It's possibly also a good question for the processors, because the credit situation is limiting the amount of inventory they can build. So if credit is the issue, and they still have a good market outlook, given their price point, maybe the government can do something there.

1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Are you dealing with foreign banks or Canadian banks?

1:30 p.m.

Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association

Denny Morrow

Certainly the Icelandic bank was a big player. They're out of the picture now. But mostly, down here, we're dealing with Canadian banks.