Evidence of meeting #16 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobster.
Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association
I don't have the answer to that. If you were talking to somebody called MacDonald this morning, for example, or I could have brought two or three of our members together....
I can tell you this is a sophisticated industry, and they use the available mechanisms that are there. So if it's available, I'm sure they're using it.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
This government is making decisions faster than I've ever seen any government, and it may be worth checking that moving target, BDC and EDC. You said that 8% export tariff was worth looking at. So it's something perhaps we should flag.
On poaching, conservation is supposed to be the number one objective of fisheries management. As we have to give advice to the minister, can you tell us anything about whether poaching is affecting this industry? We haven't heard much about that in our comments from our witnesses so far.
Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association
Well, we have surveillance and enforcement officers, as there are always people who will not abide by the regulations. Greg mentioned trucks being held up at the border two or three years ago. Well, for a couple years the Americans were inspecting and they were finding undersized lobsters, finding berried females. In some crates, they even found rocks. We can always do a better job, and I think the fishermen are the first to call for good enforcement out there. It's in their best interests.
I think the number one thing is whether it can get worse than it is right now. It sure can. If we overfish the resource and we push the resource down, it can be a lot worse and devastating. So conservation is number one. Are we doing enough? I don't think so, in most lobster fisheries.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston
Thank you very much.
On behalf of the committee, gentlemen, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for coming here today, meeting with us, and providing us with some feedback and advice. Once again, thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedules.
We'll take a short break to set up for the next panel of witnesses.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston
Thank you, gentlemen, for coming to meet with us today.
Mr. Saulnier, I believe you're beginning. And Mr. LeBlanc, you're going to follow. Is that correct?
President, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9
Thank you.
I really appreciate the fact that you have come down here to listen to our views and our concerns. It's a shame--I mean today, April 1. I'd call it the second day of the opening of the season in LFA 34, because every fisherman can set 25 extra traps today, and they're all out there. It's been windy for a week. Anyway, Roger and I, as fishermen, have made it.
I am president of the Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9, which is southwest Nova Scotia. I've been working on somewhat of a proposal. I have to say that Senator Comeau called me last fall in regard to what was happening with the industry and how we could work about it and how we could possibly improve it. I have to admit, when December comes around and you get a call from Ottawa from Senator Comeau, my first instinct was “Hey, I've heard that the Prime Minister is looking for people to sit in the Senate”.
President, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9
I was very disappointed. I thought this was a hell of a good career for me right now to start with.
First of all, we really want to thank the federal government and the provincial government for the announcements about the funding to help the lobster fishery seek new markets. That happened last fall. It was introduced to us by Mr. Kerr and Mr. Keddy a few weeks ago. The depressed lobster prices last fall showed the importance of dependable market information in a region that is critically dependent on the lobster fishery.
Instability in the lobster fishery has repercussions in all offset sectors of the western Nova Scotia economy. The negative impact was felt in construction, car sales, housing, and service sectors, which is just logical, I would say. This not only affects the regional economy but also results in lower government taxation revenues in the depressed regional economy. Furthermore, this can depress the economy of other lobster-dependent communities of the maritime provinces, as we know we have affected the lobster fishery in P.E.I. by what we did last fall.
This is to propose for your consideration an expansion of your recent initiative with the objective of strengthening the industry over the long term. This, I might add, is a concept that I've been working on with Senator Comeau since December. It's proposed by industry people and members of Parliament--Mr. Kerr and Mr. Keddy--who also agree this initiative has merit.
We will, I guess, get into questions of what the prices are we pay for licences, but we propose that a portion of the considerable yearly licence fee paid into the general government revenues by licence holders in LFA 34—and I do want to specify in brackets 33, as there is an another option to work with them too—be directed to an industry-developed agency in southwest Nova Scotia. The agency would hire paid research staff who would report to a board of directors made up of industry representatives. The board would set overall policy and research objectives. An agency directed by the industry would have the trust of the fishermen and the buyers as well and might therefore have access to valuable industry information not readily available to government.
The goal of the agency would be to gather local lobster harvest projections from the industry, to research price and market data, to research transport issues, etc. Staff would analyze the data and propose plans to react to market and economic forces sometimes beyond industry control, as was the case last year. It is vitally important to identify these new diverse market possibilities and enhance the possibilities of shipping live lobsters to market.
Some of the advantages would be--and I have another list in the first document I presented to Senator Comeau--an industry made more stable by dependable research and perceptive analysis, resulting in better revenues for the industry, a more robust local economy, and an increase in government tax revenues.
You may wish to have your economists evaluate the impact, but I am confident they would conclude that a more stable and profitable lobster industry would result in increased total tax revenues and make up for the forgone licence fees.
There should be no Treasury Board difficulties, because the funds would come directly from industry to the agency, rather than from general revenues redistributed to the industry. Government and industry would determine an appropriate amount to go directly to the agency or board. There would be no subsidy issues raised with NAFTA partners or taxpayers, because funding would come directly from the licence fees paid by the industry, rather than from general taxpayer revenues.
Areas 34 and 33 could serve as a test area. If successful, the initiative could be expanded to other areas.
We hope you will agree that this concept is, at the very least, worthy of consideration. I understand that this was hand-delivered to Greg Kerr, Gerald Keddy, and Minister Gail Shea by Senator Comeau.
Roger LeBlanc Secretary-Treasurer, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9
I'm Roger LeBlanc. I'm a fisherman. I'm with the Maritime Fishermen's Union. I'm on the lobster managing board, and I'm port representative for LFA 34. I represent roughly 80 out of 972 fishermen.
With respect to this agency we're talking about, it's already money that we're paying in. We pay roughly $890, and we're asking to get some back. We're all volunteers. I volunteer on the management board, and I'm a volunteer port representative. For example, this year in November at the eleventh hour we had to make a decision on whether were going to go on Sundays for the lobsters we had. We had to go. I represent 80 fishermen, and before you get to the round table and get all those, it's quite a job.
If this agency were there, they would have a task and they would put letters out ahead of time. We could hire students in the summertime. I don't think a fishery as valuable as ours should make decisions at the eleventh hour. That was one of the things. The other was our trap limit. That was another thing we had to bring back. It's like Denny Morrow said, we had to get to the table. They were talking about all the lobsters we were supposed to bring in during December. As a volunteer and fisherman at the same time, it's pretty hard to get going. Really, this would be very valuable to us.
At the same time, we're looking for new markets. We can even overlook the buyers, or see if we're in good favour or going the right way for new marketing. We need something in our fishery. The way it's looking for us as fishermen, it's not really a pretty picture right now in southwest Nova Scotia. We have a lot of problems coming down the road. There are a lot of decisions to be made and a lot of meetings. We're 18 in district 34, and it's all volunteers. There's no money coming in for nothing. Today we're the only boats at the wharf, tied up, out of all those boats. I believe in the fishermen I represent.
Another thing, off the subject, I'm really in support of owner-operators. Since I've been fishing, I've seen my grandfather and my father, then my father and me, and then me and my son in my boat right now. I'm a strong believer in owner-operators. That's another big problem we have in southwest Nova Scotia.
This agency is something that would be very valuable to us. We hope in the future we'll get it.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
First of all, thank you for taking the time from your obviously busy schedule to come to brief us on your situation. You're trying to make a living in a difficult time.
Mr. LeBlanc, you emphasized that you're a strong believer in the owner-operator setup in the fishery. So am I, but I just wonder, do you believe that there should be two licences combined? Is that what you're coming at?
Secretary-Treasurer, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9
No. From the time I was little I can remember—I'm talking mostly about in our wharf—we used to have a lot of fish draggers. Right now fewer than a handful are left. They're all owned by companies. We had all kinds of scallopers. It's the same thing: they're all owned by companies.
District 34 is one of the biggest independent fisheries left. We are seeing it going down the road. It's going down every day. We're losing it.
Where I'm coming from is when the Donald Marshall decision came down, the price of gear went up, and some guys who had fish draggers and quota sold them to the government to accommodate the natives in our fishery. What happened there, for a tax break they bought into our fishery. So with this trust agreement, when 51% of our fishery is owned by companies, we're done. When we get to the table--you have it on the west coast--we won't have a word to say. Now we're still independent fishermen and we still can go to the table and negotiate and have a fair deal, but if the licences keep going into these hands, which should be controlled and still is not, we're going down the drain fast.
For us in southwest Nova, it's really important. That is our backbone right now in the industry, and that's why I'm speaking for owner-operators. I'm a straight believer in owner-operators. At the beginning it was supposed to be that if you sold something to the native fishery, you were buying out of the fishery. You were gone. But that wasn't true, because they came into our fishery.
The way these trust agreements are going right now, we won't be independent too much longer. We can see it going down day by day.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
So it's fair to say that the consolidation of the fishery is a major concern to you.
Secretary-Treasurer, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9
I have no comments on that because I'm not in groundfish.
Secretary-Treasurer, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9
No, I don't think that would be good.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I'm just asking to get it on the record, because that's what's going on here and that's what we want.
Hubert, when you were speaking you indicated some moves were taken last fall and you were speaking about the new agency and you'd pay funds and licences would be returned to make sure there are no trade difficulties. I'd like you to elaborate more on that and what you felt took place last fall and the effect that had on the industry and that type of thing.
President, Maritime Fishermen's Union, Local 9
Senator Comeau asked what could they do to help the industry in a sense. We know quite well that Ottawa cannot submit a cheque for $5,000 to every fisherman. It goes against the free trade issue and everything else. He came up with a few points. What about licence fees? LFA 34 paid $1,890 for a licence to fish lobster in LFA 34. Other LFAs in the area paid anywhere from $100 to $250. That is a huge variation. He asked what happens if we try to cut the licence fees in half.