Mr. Donnelly.
Evidence of meeting #16 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishers.
Evidence of meeting #16 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishers.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
To Monsieur Cloutier's question about the purpose of the committee, I think it would be great if the chair could comment on that at some point in the agenda, but I know I have limited time, so I'll get right to my questions.
Marc, if I could, I'll ask you my question. I'm wondering if you agree with the past scientific recommendations, those of the biologists, on the snow crab catch levels. Also, did you see these recommendations reflected in the different quota levels over the past few years?
Secondly, what do you think would have been a better way to handle the situation? For instance, what levels or quotas would you have recommended back in 2006, 2007, 2008, last year, and, for instance, this year?
11:55 a.m.
Representative, Association des morutiers traditionnels de la Gaspésie
I have participated in the crab stock peer review in each of the last 10 years. Each year, and particularly in the last four years, biologists were recommending a 10% cut in the TAC in order to maintain a small crab stock for future years. The snow crab stock follows a cycle. After a certain number of years, the stock declines and then it increases continuously. Because we were heading towards the low point in the cycle, in the last four years, biologists were asking for a 10% cut.
That recommendation was rejected by the industry in each of the last four years. Even last year, at an advisory committee meeting, I remember that Mikio said that we would feel the impact and it would hurt. If we had accepted the 10% cut in the TAC in these last four years, it is possible that we would not be going through what we are now this year.
This year, the scientific reports were taken into consideration by the Minister's office. As I mentioned earlier, the problem is that biologists are hired by the Department and prepare reports, but ultimately, the Department pays no attention to what they say. So, the industry carried on regardless. No cuts were made to the TAC in the last four years, and that is why we have ended up with such a significant cut this year. The same thing will probably happen again next year, depending on the scientific report, which will soon be submitted.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston
Mr. Donnelly, there's an answer to the question from Mr. Cloutier.
11:55 a.m.
Director, Regroupement des pêcheurs professionnels du sud de la Gaspésie
My comment is along the same lines as what Mr. Diotte said. I no longer attend meetings of the Rock Crab Advisory Committee. I participated for 10 years, but I decided to stop, because when you go to the meetings, you realize just how much control the traditional crab industry has over the committee and its decisions. If that is what you came to hear, well, I can tell you it is true. As far as I am concerned, it is primarily a political issue. Last year and the year before, despite the recommendations made by Canadian scientists, who are paid by the Government of Canada, the political party currently in office decided to maintain crab quotas at too high a level. This is what everyone had been saying and it was well understood by the traditional industry, the other industry, the Aboriginal industry and the people with temporary or permanent allocations, as well as other fishers.
In my opinion, that is a very serious weakness, and it has lead to the kind of disruption we are seeing today in the region. It is government weakness. Despite the fact that these scientists are paid with our tax money, the government completely ignored them and preferred to believe what a biologist paid by the traditional crab industry had been saying, particularly in 2009. That is what happened. They preferred to rely on an outside professional who was being paid by the traditional crab industry, rather than relying on the reports prepared by our own scientists. That was a very serious error.
We were in full agreement with what the scientists were saying. The quotas should have been cut four years ago to avoid the kind of disruption we are experiencing today. But, unfortunately, the political decision-makers did not listen to that advice, with the result that we are now facing a very serious situation. That is the problem. It is not because the crab stock disappeared; it is currently in a declining phase. We are seeing what is left of the crab stocks. Five or six years from now, we will be in a growth phase.
We surfed at the crest of the wave for a little too long, and allocated crab quotas that were too high every year. We artificially inflated what was there. It is always the same mistake, whether we are talking about herring or cod. It is a political decision that leads to mistakes. Why do we bother paying scientists, if we are not going to listen to them?
Noon
Conservative
Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I also want to thank Mr. Blais for the warm welcome to his constituency, I and thank all of you for being here with us today.
I am from Miramichi, New Brunswick, where I have many fishing communities in my area as well. I grew up in the fishing community of Escuminac basin and that area. Fishing is the main industry of that area, so I certainly am happy to be here to hear the concerns of this area as well.
As we all know, and as was mentioned along the way, the snow crab industry is cyclical and variable in nature. What do you see as the current outlook for 2011-12, or later, for the rebound of the resource? Anyone can answer.
Noon
Director, Regroupement des pêcheurs professionnels du sud de la Gaspésie
We have to act on the scientists' recommendations, because they know the resource and know how to stabilize it. Why not accept their recommendations? Why not listen to what they are saying? That is what they are there for; we are paying them, so we should start listening to them, once and for all. If we do not, we will face similar situations in future. That is what happened with cod and that is what is happening right now with spring herring. We allocate fish on paper, everybody knows that, it is common practice in the industry; that is the way it is done. If you want to play around with the wages of plant workers, dock hands and fisher helpers, just keep doing the same thing.
I think we will manage to stabilize things. We are at the low point in the cycle now, but quotas have to be kept to a minimum. The industry is even seriously thinking that the fishery may not be opened next year, so that crab levels can be restored as quickly as possible.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB
You mentioned the plant workers. Are there many of the plant workers who are within the ages of 62 to 65? Is that a majority of them or is it just a small number or what?
12:05 p.m.
Plant Workers Representative, Unipêche M.D.M. Ltée
I would not say that half of them are in that age group, but certainly three quarters of them are.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB
So there are a lot of them at that age who are waiting to get their pension and trying to get unemployment in the meantime.
My other question had to do with—
Pardon?
12:05 p.m.
Plant Workers Representative, Unipêche M.D.M. Ltée
They are anxious to reach retirement age. They are really anxious to reach the age of 65.
12:05 p.m.
Plant Workers Representative, Unipêche M.D.M. Ltée
There are some who are 67 and are still there.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB
I had another question. We all know that we're speaking of the highs and lows in the biomass. I'm just wondering, with all the research that is being done, if you can explain why there are highs and lows in the biomass that we have to deal with. Is there a reason for this?
That's for anyone.
12:05 p.m.
Director, Regroupement des pêcheurs professionnels du sud de la Gaspésie
It is because of natural recruitment. The fact is that natural recruitment means the biomass is very high for a certain number of years, average at other times, and, occasionally, extremely low. When you start playing around with that natural cycle, you are asking for trouble. And that is what is happening now. We had some very good years.
The cycle was well known. Scientifically speaking, the crab industry is the best known of any; it is one where scientists are most able to predict what is going to happen, because crab is a sedentary species. Although it is not necessarily found in the Gulf, crab remains where it is; it is sedentary. Therefore, scientists are able to predict its cycles, and their best research is on crab.
But nobody listens to them. I am telling you, once again, that nobody listens to them. There are reasons why we do not want to or cannot listen to what they have to say. In my opinion, one of those reasons is that the industry, the vessel fleet, has developed to such an extent, and has become so large, that all the crab is being used to make payments on boats that have become incredibly large and super efficient. And that is unfortunate. It means that there have to be fairly high crab quotas year after year. People cannot afford a low income year.
As a result, there is a lot of pressure on politicians to keep quotas high, despite that disagreement with the scientists. That creates situations like the one we are in today.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston
Merci.
Mr. Cloutier, you asked a question earlier and Mr. Donnelly asked that I respond to it. It was in the middle of a questioning period.
The Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans is comprised of members of all parties and members from all across this country of ours. They come from various walks of life and they come here with the intent to provide advice to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.
There is an issue that has been raised within our standing committee by various members, and it was agreed upon by the standing committee to study the snow crab industry in Atlantic Canada and Quebec. The reason the committee is doing that is because of concerns that were raised by the sector. Whether it be from the plant workers, the industry itself, the deckhands, the associations, there have been concerns raised about the situation that the industry, the sector, finds itself in this year.
This committee takes its responsibility very seriously so we certainly took it upon ourselves to venture out into the communities to hear first-hand from members of the communities their advice and their thoughts on the sector and how to ensure its sustainability. The committee and politicians in general are often criticized for staying in Ottawa and remaining in a bubble, if you wish. The committee found that in its decision to come to your community, to come to this community, where we can feel first-hand the impact of the decisions that governments take. That's why we're here today.
We're here today to hear from you, to look you square in the eye and hear what concerns you have about the decisions that government has taken, so that we are able to go back and provide advice to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and provide recommendations to her, so this situation doesn't repeat itself and the concerns this community and other communities like this have aren't repeated.
Once again, on behalf of the committee, I want to say thank you very much for taking the time out of your busy schedules today to provide us with that advice so that we may be able to provide that advice and those recommendations back to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.
Thank you once again, ladies and gentlemen.
The meeting is done, Mr. Cloutier.
12:10 p.m.
Director, Regroupement des pêcheurs professionnels du sud de la Gaspésie
We would like to make one last recommendation which is a large scale recommendation. It covers all the species, and it concerns the adoption of a new Fishery Act, which died on the Order Paper the last two times around.
When we do pass this new legislation, I hope it will include measures that deal with the wishes of the Minister in office. I would like to see it passed, because that is probably what will save us in future.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston
Whether it's that bill that was on the order paper or any other bill, I can assure you that there will be plenty of opportunity for consultation. When that opportunity comes, and this committee or whatever committee comes to your community, or you go to that committee in Ottawa, I hope you take the opportunity to provide some sound advice so it can be taken into consideration for that bill.
Thank you very much.
The meeting is adjourned.