Fisheries Committee on June 2nd, 2010

[Tim Rhyno]

That's true to an extent. When I started this process to explore the slope at the edge, I was told by different DFO officials that if I found crab offshore 100 or 140 miles, where no one's ever fished before, they could issue me a licence in a company name. So I didn't know the legalities of it or what to do; I was basically fishing.

In the first year when I went fishing in November and December, they couldn't get anyone to fish, so they asked me to go fishing. The DFO official who was in charge of crab in Halifax just put crab onto me to catch for the association, because everybody else had quit. They couldn't get anyone to go out in November. I smashed the windows out of my boat and flooded the wheelhouse. I was told verbally that if I found crab there—and I trusted those people—I would get a licence, but that didn't materialize.

Politics got involved. I tried to get a licence and applied, but the person didn't get back to me. Then they started saying, “Tim, it's over. It's above my head. I know you found the crab.” So I said I needed somebody to make a presentation who was a professional. John is a professional and he's honest. That's why I did that.

I was always told I was going to get this licence. I applied and won the draw, but I didn't get it. So there wasn't much trust between me and DFO officials at the time--absolutely none.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I am starting to get a better picture. But I am still a bit foggy, you understand. I would like the fog to go away.

I know that you talked about documents earlier. You read some letters. It is important that you submit them to the committee so that I can see them. Otherwise, I will not be able to make a decision. Just so you know, this is not a courtroom and we do not accuse anyone. On the contrary, we want to make sure that we have the best possible licence conditions and if the rules and regulations or the act can be changed, we will make the necessary recommendations.

By all means, don't be embarrassed to give us all the documents that you have. The more there are, the better it will be in a sense. There are never too many. We are used to having tons of documents. We have translators who will be delighted to translate them. It is their duty and besides, it gives them something to do, which is even better. That will allow me, as a representative, to understand the situation better, to fully understand it. Right now, I am still in the dark. It is neither your fault nor mine, but you understand very well that that's why, if you have documents, you can give them to us.

Now, I have a few quick questions about the dates. You said that you were told at one point that you could go fishing. When was that? Could you give me the dates pertaining to the event that you just described to me?

[Tim Rhyno]

In the first years the lobster fishermen in Cape Breton got permits, not quotas. They were allotted 5,000 pounds or 10,000 pounds. I bought an old wooden boat, which I still have. Hopefully I can soon get my own boat, a good boat that will stand it.

They would put 5,000 pounds or 10,000 pounds on us, and we would go out and catch for them. As far as what was going on, say there were 200,000 pounds allotted for the offshore, and in the first year of an experimental fishery, which this was, if the fishermen in general only caught 170,000 pounds of that quota, that's all you would get the next year. So the panic was on for me to help all the fishermen catch that quota to keep the quota up for them. That's what I did.

But I was told they could grant me a licence in a company name--or privately too, because I did find the crab. No one had ever fished that far for crab and found it. That's basically it.

I hope that answered your question, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Blais.

Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm wondering if you could come back to me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Sure.

Mr. Keddy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's a pleasure to be back at the fisheries committee. I didn't realize how much I missed it.

For Monsieur Blais, I appreciate his comments and I understand that he came in late, but this documentation does deserve to be looked at, and I think it requires further study, actually, from the committee.

I find this case extremely troublesome--I really do. As parliamentarians, we're partisan. We belong to different political parties, and we often go into the trenches against one another in the political forum, but we have absolutely no right to attack individuals for any reason whatsoever or to use undue political influence that hurts and directly affects individuals. And I think, quite honestly, that's what's happened here.

I first spoke to Tim Rhyno when he called me. He was working in Fort McMurray. He tried to explain his case over the phone. It was impossible to do. Eventually we got together, and I can tell you I was shocked at the evidence. I was shocked at the evidence. I was shocked that DFO was refusing to deal with this issue. And I still find it shocking that members would question very clear evidence.

I realize that Monsieur Blais needs to have that evidence translated so he can have a chance to study it, but I would urge members of Parliament to look at this evidence and understand what Mr. Rhyno is asking. First of all, the licence that he has should not be in jeopardy by questions in the House of Commons saying that it's out of order, because it is absolutely not out of order.

There are hundreds of licences in the snow crab fishery. We're talking about one individual licence. And it's my understanding that there were licences granted after Mr. Rhyno's request. Is that correct?

[Tim Rhyno]

No, we don't know that. I don't think so, no.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Okay. How many licences...in areas 23, 24?

[Tim Rhyno]

There may have been another native licence after--there may have been. There are 60-some licences.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

On the 2000 DFO survey of area 23, during which the necessary groundwork for the slope fishery was laid, who all participated in that survey?

[Tim Rhyno]

I did the survey. I was the only one to complete the survey that year, and I think Herbie Nash completed his. Herbie and Robert Truckair want to come up next week to set the political interference straight. They're two fishermen who want to come up, if they can.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

And I appreciate that, but that will be up to the chair and to the committee.

I do think the committee has an obligation here to look at this evidence and to send a report back to the House, because what's gone on here is scandalous.

I just want to go through some points here. Participants were put in order of priority for this fishery. In the emerging fishery policy, there were 17 applicants, 17 proposals drawn. In order of priority, Mr. Rhyno was second. That should have guaranteed him a licence. There was a licence that was given in 2003—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Excuse me, Mr. Keddy.

The bells are ringing. There are 30-minute bells for a vote in the House.

As we discussed Monday, when the bells ring we require unanimous consent of the committee to proceed beyond them. Is there unanimous consent? As we discussed the other day, if there's a 30-minute bell, if you wish to proceed for an additional 15 minutes, or whatever the case may be, I need to have unanimous consent.

[An hon. member]

Proceed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I would ask the committee if there is a will to continue the questioning. Will we proceed?

No? I'm waiting to hear.

There is no unanimous consent, so the committee will adjourn for the vote. The vote will be at 4:52, so it will finish after five. I would say it's not reasonable for us to expect to be able to come back to the meeting.

The meeting is adjourned.