Evidence of meeting #32 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farms.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
And do you have some research that would suggest why the trend of the downward abundance of salmon has taken place over decades?
5:40 p.m.
Executive Director, BC Centre for Aquatic Health Sciences
I don't know why there's the downward trend of salmon over decades. We do know that salmon farming has been around since the 1990s but has evolved. The research I have been involved with has been with some of the DFO collaborators. I believe you've already talked to Simon Jones, who did laboratory studies looking at the resistance of sea lice developed in pink salmon when they're still quite small.
The work I have been involved in is looking at the health of pink salmon in the environment. My big concern is that a lot of the research that has been going on has concentrated on sea lice and not on the holistic salmon and always equating infection with disease. We all know that an infection doesn't necessarily mean disease.
Over a couple of years we did a study where we looked at pink salmon in the Broughton Archipelago and we evaluated them for health and tried to associate that with the sea lice infestations. We're preparing a manuscript that's being submitted now. In general, our findings were that during the two years we looked at, the prevalence of sea lice was not high enough to affect any population levels. Certainly some factors were seen histologically to indicate that there might be some kind of nutritional or toxic exposure to these animals that might affect their ability to survive.
The interesting finding we had--
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Could I interrupt for a second?
Are you familiar with Dr. Reynolds' research with the host system? My understanding is that his analysis shows a significant reduction in numbers after they go through a certain area of Georgia Strait with the salmon farms, and I'm wondering if you have an alternative explanation for why the--
5:45 p.m.
Executive Director, BC Centre for Aquatic Health Sciences
The work wasn't done by Dr. John Reynolds. It was by another researcher. From my understanding of his research--and I know some of the publications have gone to the media--he did correct what was said.
5:45 p.m.
Executive Director, BC Centre for Aquatic Health Sciences
He was saying the numbers of salmon significantly decline once they enter the Queen Charlottes area, but it is again in association. It may be relative to size. It may be relative to the sea lice. But the problem is when you only concentrate on one factor, you ignore all the other possibilities. I think based on the research that's being done by Simon Jones to show that pink salmon are quite resistant to sea lice once they're over a gram, and our research, which shows very little disease related to the infestation, we may need to look a little beyond sea lice.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
So it hasn't been proven it is sea lice, but there's still a concern that something is affecting the salmon.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Then I was wondering with Mr. Davis whether Tahsis has independent scientists, or are you drawing on the conclusions of some of the scientists who have been mentioned tonight?
5:45 p.m.
Councillor, Village of Tahsis
Yes, I would have to agree with that. We're not doing our own research. We're just the village. But we have been reading the research out there and looking at any evidence we can find. I've certainly talked with researchers. I've talked with representatives of the fish farms and part of the Nootka Sound Watershed Society, of which one of the fish farms is a member. I've seen their presentations, and we've drawn our own conclusions based on all that information. In my submission I did list several research papers, which seem to draw the conclusion that sea lice seem to be the main issue with the wild fish decline in these areas.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Ms. Cannon, you mentioned that there's not been evidence of sea lice on the chinook salmon, and I wasn't clear whether you were saying that's a species-specific issue, or do you have scientists associated with Creative Salmon who have some conclusions as to why there are no sea lice?
5:45 p.m.
Biology Manager, Creative Salmon Company Ltd.
I would add to that by saying that back in I believe it was 2003, when the provincial government initiated their monitoring and reporting program for sea lice on farmed salmon, Pacific salmon were a part of that program. I believe the Pacific salmon were involved for possibly two years. At the conclusion, the provincial government determined that sea lice were not an issue on Pacific salmon and we would not be part of the stringent monitoring and reporting program that the Atlantic farmers were.
5:45 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Raynald Blais
Thank you very much.
I will now ask a few questions myself before giving the floor to Mr. Donnelly.
I have a question for Mr. Sidney Sam.
You seem like a wise man, and I would like to hear your opinion on today's topic, in light of what we have heard up till now.
Do you have any particular concerns? Are there things that are worrisome to you? Do you think that the situation may improve since the Department of Fisheries and Oceans will be entirely responsible for the aquaculture file? I would like to hear your comments, Mr. Sidney Sam.
5:50 p.m.
Sidney Sam Sr. Ahousaht First Nation
Thank you.
We do have an agreement between Mainstream Canada and the Ahousaht. Since we've had an agreement, things have changed for the better. If we close down the fish farms right now, we would lose a lot of working people. If we close down fish farms, give us a job, because we won't have one. We don't have that employment in Hahoulthee.
Since the agreement, like I said, there are a lot of changes being made in improving the way they do fish farming. We've been doing a little bit of research on it. I think that on the west coast it's a little different from the east coast. We talk about the Fraser River sockeye, but we don't seem to have that kind of sea lice effect that the east coast has. I believe the sockeye on the east coast goes right through the farms, but on the west coast it's not like that. We're not affected by the sea lice as much as the east coast. That's my opinion.
5:50 p.m.
Vice-Chair, Squamish to Lillooet Sportfish Advisory Committee
The sockeye that you fish, are they from the Somass River run?
5:50 p.m.
Ahousaht First Nation
Some of them are, yes. Sockeye come through there all the time.
5:50 p.m.
Vice-Chair, Squamish to Lillooet Sportfish Advisory Committee
One interesting commentary on that is there are no fish farms in Barkley Sound or Alberni Inlet leading up to that river on the west coast.
5:50 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Raynald Blais
I have a question for Mr. Davis. Mr. Brown may reply as well, but first I am putting it to Mr. Davis. You both talked about closed containment systems.
I would like to know why you are in favour of closed containment. What is the big difference you see with that? How do you view this? Can you give us more details?
5:50 p.m.
Councillor, Village of Tahsis
I like to live by the precautionary principle, for one thing. It seems that with closed containment you can eliminate the sea lice issue because it's closed containment. Certainly on land it's not an issue. Closed containment in the water may still be an issue, depending on the type of filtration they use. But I just feel you will be eliminating these potential problems with sea lice by going to that. Obviously it will cost more for the fish farm industry to do that, and that's why they're resisting it at this point. In the long run, it's for the benefit of everybody, and particularly to the wild salmon.
We have a slightly different situation up in Tahsis and Clayoquot Sound. We have Nootka Island and we have inland inlets behind that. That's where these fish farms are located, and the fish are compelled to swim quite close to them. This is where we're having issues. It's a thoroughly different situation from what's happening farther down the coast.
5:50 p.m.
Bloc
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I would like to acknowledge that we're on the traditional territory of the first nation people, and I'd like to thank all of our presenters for coming out and sharing your testimony this afternoon and evening.
I am going to start with Iñigo.
You had mentioned Martin Krkosek's work. We've had Dr. Martin Krkosek come to present testimony. So you've answered a question that I had. He seemed to provide the committee with very objective information, but his conclusion seemed to be that sea lice, from some of the farms he looked at anyway, was a problem over the years they did the study.
Perhaps I could turn to Sonja.
You mentioned IHN in your presentation, but you didn't mention ISA. I'm wondering if you could comment about the presence of ISA, or IHN, and how you're able to draw a conclusion that it doesn't exist on the coast and isn't in any operations on the west coast.
5:55 p.m.
Executive Director, BC Centre for Aquatic Health Sciences
Let's talk about ISA. That's probably the easiest one.
It's basically an exotic disease. Generally, since 2001 there has been an audit system in place where provincial government technicians go out and audit the farms. So the farms are required to report any fish health events to a database, which goes to the province. But there are also auditors who go from the provincial government to check the health status of fish, and nowhere has there ever been any ISA detected, either by the auditors or farmers.
ISA has been devastating to Chile. It's basically almost caused a collapse of the industry. It's had huge impacts in Norway. It's been very bad on the east coast in the past as well.
So we're very fortunate not to have ISA. And there's been enough evidence, through the diligent work of the fish health researchers or the veterinarians, as well as the auditors, to indicate that's not a problem.
IHN, infectious—
5:55 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
Sorry, you mentioned Chile, Norway, and the east coast of Canada, and I think specifically you're mentioning New Brunswick. How is it that they were infected with ISA but that on the west coast either we haven't been or won't be infected?
5:55 p.m.
Executive Director, BC Centre for Aquatic Health Sciences
Basically, I think it has to do with how you import the genetic material, and I believe ISA is endemic to the Atlantic Ocean. So it's there in the wild reservoirs. We don't know what. So the disease is present.
What I believe happened in Chile is that it was brought there with the introduction of smolts, or as fry or infected eggs.
What B.C. has been doing for a number of years is that for the most part they had their own brood stock. They imported eggs a long time ago, basically in the late eighties, before ISA even really appeared, and they have had their own genetics. Any importation of eggs, probably since the mid nineties, has been under strict quarantine and only from facilities deemed to be disease-free, which to date have just been in Iceland. They are the only source from whom eggs are allowed to be imported into British Columbia.