Yes.
Evidence of meeting #44 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #44 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:25 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Public Affairs, BP Canada Inc.
I suspect that when Mr. Fortier is on next, he will have that web address with him.
11:25 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Good morning, madam and gentlemen. I appreciate the fact that you're here. At one point I was afraid you might not be that interested in appearing before us, in view of the letter that Mr. Peacock and Ms. Perry sent to the chair. I would have found it unfortunate not to see each other face to face, not to debate but rather to obtain more information.
I only want to point out to you that the purpose of the motion I have submitted is to inquire and then obviously to take a position. I have no interest in imputing motives in any way, and that's not my style.
Having said that, I would say that your reputation unfortunately precedes you—and here I'm talking about the reputation of oil companies in general. As a result of the incidents in the Gulf of Mexico not so long ago, you will readily understand that, without necessarily putting you in the prisoner's dock, we have a lot of questions about your interests, motivation and way of doing things. We wonder whether economic interests take precedence over everything else.
In fact, the introduction of this motion is somewhat tainted. It's important to know what is actually going on and, at the same time, to verify all that with the people concerned by enabling them to appear before us to give us their version of things. Sometimes there's one version, but the idea behind that is to seek the truth as much as possible.
Ultimately, I know this can be a matter of interpretation. However, first of all—and I would like to have a relatively clear answer from you; I hope my question will be clear as well—I want to understand your motivation and your interest in cooperating.
I have no problem with ArcticNet. My idea is to verify your degree of motivation and interest in providing money so that we can eventually have scientific data on what is going on in the Canadian north.
Depending on the kind of answer I get, some questions may follow on the same topic. If not, I have others.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
11:30 a.m.
Exploration Manager, Imperial Oil Limited
Thank you, Mr. Blais. When you explain yourself like that, wanting more information, I think that's wonderful. I'm perfectly willing to share as much information as we have the time to share today, understanding the limitations on the time we have together.
Why are we willing to cooperate in the Arctic? Obviously we were awarded these exploration licences, which were granted by INAC. INAC is the federal agency responsible for administering these leases and putting these leases out for tender. These leases come out for tender and the companies bid on these blocks. We were awarded one in 2007; BP was awarded another one, in 2008.
We then have this narrow window of opportunity to collect the data we need to further our exploration activities. The collection of baseline environmental data is a requirement for submissions we have to make if we decide to apply to drill a well.
There's very limited scientific data available on the Beaufort right now. We use collaborations, not just in Canada, we use them globally. We use them in other parts of Canada as well, as a way of maximizing the amount of data available and maximizing the efforts of all concerned.
One of the things we particularly liked about the collaboration with ArcticNet was the ability to leverage the scientific expertise of ArcticNet with our own expertise. I think that relationship went very well, and I'm sure Monsieur Fortier can give more examples of that. It was a very positive relationship.
It's nothing unusual. We do collaborations—for example, we do collaborations with DFO, we do collaborations in eastern Canada and Alberta. For me, it's more of a normal way of increasing the amount of knowledge we can all gain, and it's within the public's interest. It's a critical way of maximizing the amount of information we have.
As I mentioned before, this scientific data then becomes public. If a company acquired the data, in what we call a proprietary manner—for example, if we funded all the data—then obviously we wouldn't be as keen to share that data with everybody. Collaborating takes away that proprietary overlay that's sometimes put on data and makes it publicly available.
11:30 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Will your interest or ultimate objective, in addition to exploring for resources, be to exploit them?
11:30 a.m.
Exploration Manager, Imperial Oil Limited
The licence awarded to us is called an exploration licence, and we have the licence for nine years.
There is significant risk in the work we do. We never really know until we've done our technical analysis whether there is something there that we might want to drill. We're always faced with the issue that we might do all this work—Anita mentioned the seismic program that BP undertook for their block, and we did a similar program in 2008—and after we've acquired that data we might not see anything on the data that gives us encouragement, at all. We can't answer that question yet because we're doing the analysis of that data.
There's always uncertainty, Monsieur Blais, and there's certainly an uncertainty that we may never do anything on the block.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to our guests, and thank you for coming.
I'm the New Democratic critic for fisheries and oceans.
You've provided some information. You've basically stated that at this point you're collecting data in terms of how it relates to oil exploration. I think that's a fair summary. I have only five minutes, so I'm going to get to what I think the heart of the matter is, some might say the elephant in the room.
I'm hoping you can address the issue that I think is on Canadians' minds regarding the federal government providing a subsidy for big oil to essentially be out collecting data for oil exploration under the guise of climate change research. I believe the program is focused on looking at the Arctic and looking at the impacts of a changing climate in the Arctic, where climate change is happening quite quickly. So you're accessing a vessel that was, I believe, for those purposes, and you can correct me if I'm not representing that accurately.
How do you respond then to the perception people may have that the oil companies are working with the federal government or using Canadian subsidies as well as the Amundsen and some of the research facilities to essentially explore for oil?
11:35 a.m.
Exploration Manager, Imperial Oil Limited
Mr. Donnelly, again I would just repeat that we didn't contract the Canadian Coast gGard ship Amundsen. We are in collaboration with ArcticNet. We have a five-year agreement with ArcticNet. I believe part of the mission for ArcticNet is to collect scientific data, and it's not just focused on climate change. We really had nothing to do with the Amundsen, and we focused our efforts on increasing the scientific knowledge and database for the Beaufort Sea.
11:35 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Public Affairs, BP Canada Inc.
I would add that BP's contract is with ArcticNet as well. It's not with the federal government. We do not get a subsidy from the federal government.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
I understand your response, but I'm just curious as to how you would respond to the issue of the perception the public may have. That was more the line of my question. Do you not see any irony here that there seems to be a collaboration or a working relationship, whether it's the government or whether it's a university program in the Arctic? I think people are seeing big oil exploring and using taxpayer subsidies in the form of a vessel to carry out that mission.
So it's more about the issue of the perception people have. You could look at the BP spill off the gulf coast, which was referenced earlier. That has become part of our way of looking at oil exploration now, and it will be, I would submit, for years or perhaps decades to come. So perception plays a huge role in what government does, what business does, what universities and all these collaborating partnerships do. That's more where I was going.
11:35 a.m.
Exploration Manager, Imperial Oil Limited
I think your question is a good one, Mr. Donnelly. I would respond by saying that unfortunately those perceptions may be out there, but we would come back to the fact that we were in collaboration with ArcticNet, and our objective was to increase the scientific knowledge and the environmental knowledge of the Beaufort Sea.
February 15th, 2011 / 11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, lady and gentlemen, for coming and for helping us to understand this issue a little bit better.
To both of the companies represented here, can you tell me when your relationship with ArcticNet started?
11:40 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Public Affairs, BP Canada Inc.
Our first collaboration, I believe, was in 2009.
So we did, in 2009, set a program and then execute a program in summer of 2010. We have an ongoing relationship, though at this point in time we don't have a defined program for 2011. We're just in talks, seeing if there's other data that we need to collect.
11:40 a.m.
Exploration Manager, Imperial Oil Limited
We signed our service order with ArcticNet on May 6, 2009. That's when we completed our first program. We signed a five-year collaboration agreement with ArcticNet.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC
I think you said that you received the exploration licence in 2007. I think that was maybe for both of you...?
11:40 a.m.
Vice-President, Government and Public Affairs, BP Canada Inc.
It was 2008 for us.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC
So it was 2008 for BP.
So if ArcticNet didn't exist, or if it existed but the coast guard ship wasn't available to it and it did other things, how would you proceed with what you needed to do in order to move this exploration licence forward?
Or have you had any other experience in the Beaufort where you used other platforms besides Canadian Coast Guard ships? Have you used other vessels or other agencies to do the scientific research that's required?
11:40 a.m.
Exploration Manager, Imperial Oil Limited
We would have looked--potentially looked--for alternative vessels to help us conduct those operations. As part of some of the data collection that we'd already done...we use a lot of aerial surveys, and we've worked with the DFO on aerial surveys, for example, and collaborated in that regard for some of our mammal watch surveys.
