Fisheries Committee on March 31st, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Ms. O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, thank you for being here, and congratulations on an excellent presentation.

I come from the east coast, the Miramichi to be exact, so I have lots of fishers in my riding. It certainly is helpful for me to know a lot of the information you brought forth today. I was a long way from being up to par on what you were telling us, so it was great for me to hear.

As eco-certification increases, it increases the cost of a product to the consumer, so does this get passed along to the producers, especially the fishermen? Is it much of a cost to them?

[Nadia Bouffard]

We haven't done a study on this, so I don't know this for sure. There's no doubt the harvesters feel that producers will be passing along that cost to them.

I saw a recent presentation to the lobster industry whereby they had hired somebody to do an analysis of price in the lobster industry. It appears that in particularly the last couple of years--all of you know about the price collapse in lobster--the step in the food chain in terms of pricing, and where there's the furthest spread, hence people making more money, is between the last one on the chain to the retailers. That's an indication to me that we've not yet seen that price being farmed down to the harvesters.

But we haven't done a study. This is something that should be looked at, I think.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Are there many on the east coast who are against this? Is it mainly because of the cost, or do they have other reasons?

[Nadia Bouffard]

I think they'd be better placed to tell you what their opposition to it is. But I've heard them speak a lot about the cost, as well as the monopoly of one organization versus another.

I think there's a lack of understanding of why they need to do this. But looking at the consequences of the whole process, all of the assessments from the Marine Stewardship Council have led to conditions. That's an indication that even strong fisheries that are well managed are not perfect. All of them have received conditions associated with the science or the management. The harvesters are the ones who have to deal with those things, from an industry perspective. They're not the ones who initiated those processes, but they have to live with the changes to their fishery.

A lot of the producers are starting to understand that they need to involve the harvesters much sooner in the process, and they are, by and large. So they are engaged in the development of the assessment as well as the gap analysis and the conditions. In the end that improves the buy-in to make the changes necessary.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

You mentioned Loblaws and Wal-Mart. What is the impact of Loblaws' announcement on the Canadian fishing industry? Are both domestic markets and foreign markets demanding certification of fisheries products?

[Nadia Bouffard]

It's too soon to tell. I don't think Loblaws has actually decided what they're not going to put on their counters. They've taken out what they consider to be the obvious targets, and all of them are products that don't come from Canada currently. But in the next wave it will be important to see what Canadian seafood products they take away from their counters.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

What role did Canada play in the development of the 2005 guidelines for the eco-labelling of the fish and fish markets?

[Nadia Bouffard]

I'm glad you asked me that question. I actually forgot to praise one of my colleagues at DFO.

DFO played a very strong leadership role in getting those guidelines developed. We saw the trend coming. We were concerned about the proliferation of labels out there that had different standards and mechanisms. Canada played a very strong role in getting those guidelines developed.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. Lunney.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Bouffard, thank you very much for a very interesting presentation.

I share some of the concerns expressed by our colleagues over there about sites like SeaChoice, that claim to be Canada's representation, if you look at the website. That could be very concerning, with some of the standards that maybe aren't being adhered to there, and some of the entrenched biases, I would think, that have been demonstrated in that list. So I share those concerns.

Now, the budget contained some $7 million to create a new marine certification agency in Canada, within DFO I presume. Do you see this...? Is it not?

Do you see this new organization within DFO? Will it function within the department or as a stand-alone? Will it require a physical plant?

[Nadia Bouffard]

The certification office is actually up and running, and it is within DFO. It's to deal with something very distinct from what we're talking about today. It's to respond to a government's, the European Union government's, regulation requiring evidence of legality, the legal source of seafood products when importing into the European Union. So it's one aspect that's distinct from the sustainability evidence. It is within DFO.

I'm not an expert on the certification office. We have experts in the department who are.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Does this new agency within the department exist to replace SeaChoice's or MSC certification?

[Nadia Bouffard]

The purpose of the certification office is to issue certificates to export into the European Union; to demonstrate that Canadian seafood products or products that come through Canada are from legal fisheries, not from sustainable...

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

So it's not in any way a competing organization.

[Nadia Bouffard]

No.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Okay. I appreciate that.

I see also, on slide 29, a logo: “Canada Sustainable Fish and Seafood”.

[Nadia Bouffard]

This thing.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Yes.

Is that sort of, “Oh, we're not looking for a label to replace, this is just something on the website”, as in not a marketing tool?

[Nadia Bouffard]

This is just something to make it look good and tell our story about Canada's management of fisheries and aquaculture.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Very good. I think it's a very nicely put together logo. We wish you well with that.

The question I wanted to raise was something you didn't have time to talk about, and that is about traceability. We do have issues showing up in markets, domestically at least, with fish that someone is buying that actually turn out to be a different species, or not what they're purported to be, or being sold as a higher-value species. I imagine that involves some genetic testing and so on.

Does the department have a strategy? Is that part of what you're doing in this new department, or is there a plan to manage those issues?

[Nadia Bouffard]

I couldn't tell you whether or not this specifically is something we're currently doing. I certainly will bring it back.

The need to trace seafood products--their source, what they are, what they're called, what they're not called--is certainly something that stems from different trade bans from ICs to other organizations. I know there are associated identification requirements from an international perspective that force countries to be able to identify products and what they are specifically.

Whether or not retailers and the people who sell fish have that requirement... I think through seafood culls for safety purposes, there have been an increased awareness and need by large retailers and food buyers to require a tracking and tracing of seafood all the way to its origin. I think that will increase. If you buy fish in Japan and have the piece of fish under a bar code, you can actually trace it all the way back to the individual captain of the boat--where it comes from.

Of course, seafood safety is particularly important in a country where they mostly eat their seafood raw, so I think this trend is also increasing. Certainly the European Union requirement to have the certificate about legality has forced the Canadian industry to track and trace their products up to a group of vessels. In order to be able to get the certificate from the Canadian government, from DFO, they need to supply the information electronically. This is forcing the industry to get organized and be able to track their products. I think it's also giving the Canadian industry a competitive edge compared to other countries, in terms of being able to demonstrate where their products are coming from.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Did you indicate that there was a study done on lobster prices? And what result did you have?

Just looking at the situation that's developed, I'm for sure concerned about page 10: what this is, what it can do to fishing in different areas, who can decide what happens, what fish is sold, what fish is not sold, what fish is marketed, how we get to certification, what dollars are involved, who pays the dollars. I'm wondering if it's all going to be big business, if it's all going to come out of the hands of our own industry, if it's all going to be decided somewhere else around the world that we can sell lobster.

First of all, I'd like you to answer on whether you did a study on the lobster fishery.

Also, Fisheries and Oceans indicated that in eco-certification the industry must take the lead. Do you think the government should not create standards itself? Is there going to be no control? Has it all gone to a third party?