Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2012

[Dr. Myron Roth]

I just don't think it would be realistic.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Kamp, go ahead.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Dr. Roth, for appearing today. We appreciate your testimony.

Can you tell me how your job changed in the post-Hinkson era?

[Dr. Myron Roth]

Actually, my job didn't change that much. We did have a group at the ministry that was managing aquaculture policy and managing the aquaculture regulations. After the Hinkson decision was made, that group was largely reallocated. Some people went to work for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, some people went to work for other ministries, and there were some large-scale changes to the provincial government. Specifically, though, I stayed with the Ministry of Agriculture as a point person for the aquaculture file.

We do have an oceans and fisheries group that migrated over from the Ministry of Environment, but that's kind of a different story that dealt more with reorganization within the provincial government.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

You're providing advice to whom?

[Dr. Myron Roth]

Me?

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Yes.

[Dr. Myron Roth]

Basically, my role as the industry specialist.... We didn't have an industry specialist for aquaculture for quite a long time. I was actually a policy analyst in the ministry. Largely, the reason for that was that we had a mandate to regulate the industry. Now that we don't have a mandate to regulate the industry and because we have other industry specialists for other agricultural commodities, like chicken and beef and grains and fruit crops, a decision was made to include an industry specialist for the aquaculture industry. Basically, I can provide expert advice to the industry and also provide expert advice to the executive here in the ministry.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Okay, thank you for that.

Dr. Roth, I think you make a very good point about making sure we have an understandable and proper regulatory regime for closed containment technology, especially as we're kind of in transition from the province to the federal government. I want to make sure I understand that. I know you don't have a lot of specific examples of how that needs to work.

Of course we already have land-based recirculating aquaculture in terms of the first part of the life cycle of fish. But what about the case of something like Swift Aquaculture, where they've had the complete grow-out on land in Agassiz, growing coho salmon? How has the regulation of that changed in the transition from the province to the federal government, and what would it look like in the future, do you think, if the regulatory regime were working as it should?

[Dr. Myron Roth]

I have a couple points of clarification. The Swift Aquaculture site isn't a recirculating aquaculture system, to start with. It's a flow-through system, like any other trout farm in the province. Basically, licensing of that facility didn't really change much. We issued an aquaculture licence for a site that was on private land, and discharge permits. A similar sort of licence was issued from Fisheries and Oceans under the Fisheries Act, which has very similar conditions of licence attached to it.

It's possible that the conditions of licence may be less specific for discharge. I don't know, I haven't seen that particular licence. There's another thing that was lost, which is kind of significant and gets overlooked. I had mentioned earlier the Farm Practices Protection (Right to Farm) Act. Essentially what that did for farmers in the province was it protected them from nuisance lawsuits. We don't have similar federal legislation to do that. So if you want to develop a closed containment site in an area that could be in a rural area but it might also have a nice park nearby or it might have some very scenic properties, and you want to build a fairly large closed containment site, someone could just complain and say that it's a big cement box that's too noisy and they don't want it there. So the Farm Practices Protection Act would actually protect people from nuisance lawsuits. They no longer have that. That was lost.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Good point.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you.

Doctor, if land-based closed containment becomes a reality, do you see the division in regulatory responsibilities becoming a problem?

[Dr. Myron Roth]

No, I don't.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you. That's good enough. No, you don't.

Also, when I asked you the question about where the open-net farms were put a number of years ago, I think you indicated some of them were put in poorly chosen areas. Can you tell me if those farms are still operating? I think it's causing some difficulty for the open-net concept itself, looking at it from that angle, because we hear this report about the path the salmon take, and perhaps they're getting more blame than they deserve--or perhaps they're not getting enough.

I'd like your comment on that.

[Dr. Myron Roth]

When this issue came up many years ago, they did an assessment of the existing sites and they moved some sites around to try to address the issue. I think what you're talking about is a somewhat different issue, and that is siting the farms on migration routes.

It would be difficult in B.C. to move farms away from migration routes. The question is how much impact they have on fish when they migrate by. I think we have some information, but we certainly don't have enough. And if you moved them away, where are you going to move them to?

I just don't know if moving the sites around because they're on migration routes is really going to address the issue, because there are quite a few salmon on the west coast swimming around, and conceivably most places would be on a migration route.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Dr. Roth. I appreciate your taking the time to appear before our committee today and provide comments and answer questions of committee members. It certainly is appreciated. Once again, I want to thank you on behalf of the entire committee for taking time out of your very busy schedule to meet with us today.

Thank you, Dr. Roth.

[Dr. Myron Roth]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. Leef, you provided notice of motion to this committee.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Yes, sir.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I was hoping that we might go another short round. I have one or two more clarifying questions to ask. I realize that you've closed it off, but I'd like to clarify one of the things Mr. Sopuck referenced.

I think he was talking about Overwaitea, which presented to us. He said they don't sell farmed salmon, and that's not the case. They told us that they sell farmed salmon. They buy from an eco-certified closed system. I just wanted to clarify that for the record.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I appreciate that, Mr. Donnelly, but I'm sure we all remember their comments when they were here before the committee. I did pick up on Mr. Sopuck's comment. I guess we understand how the testimony went that day when Overwaitea was here and they talked about their decision on what product to market.

Thank you.

Mr. Leef, you provided a notice of motion to this committee. Is it your intent to bring it forward today?