Fisheries Committee on Nov. 6th, 2012

[Kevin Stringer]

The legislation actually states that land claims agreements and things within the land claims agreements must be protected and respected. On a project-by-project basis, on an issue-by-issue basis, our department will always seek to meet its consultation requirements. That will be the case going forward.

The other thing I would say is that aboriginal groups are an absolutely key partner with respect to the implementation of this act. The act says that we will be protecting commercial, recreational, and aboriginal fisheries. Where exactly there's an aboriginal fishery, we'll be needing to work with aboriginal groups on that, on a case-by-case basis.

The department has extensive relations with aboriginal groups. We have over 300 agreements across the country that define where fisheries are. It's more of a challenge in inland areas where we don't have those relationships, but we will continue to seek to ensure that our consultation requirements are met.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Toone.

Mr. Allen.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Stringer, I want to thank you very much for your very clear explanation with regard to the clarity of section 35 and the interplay of the new sections. That was very helpful.

It's also interesting to note that some of the provisions in the Fisheries Act haven't been used since 1920, so I guess these acts cannot be said to be evergreen, can they?

I wanted to ask a couple of quick questions. On the section where you're contemplating the administration of the fines regime, does DFO have an existing process in place to actually administrate and administer these funds, or will it take some new process within DFO to actually do that, whether it be distribution of dollars or actually applications by conservation organizations?

[Kevin Stringer]

The environmental damages fund was established by statute in, I think, 1985. It's administered by Environment Canada.

We are going to be working with it. What we will do that's new, given these changes in the Fisheries Act, is we will work with Environment Canada to identify where those funds should go. Right now it's administered as a special purposes account in the Department of the Environment.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

We don't expect any new costs associated with trying to administer this?

[Kevin Stringer]

No.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Okay. Thank you very much.

My next question's on the transitional provisions. With respect to people who already have permits and that type of thing out there, do you have an anticipated level of permits out there that could come under these transitional provisions, where people might come back to the minister and ask for a review of their existing permit or authorization?

[Kevin Stringer]

We've done a quick review of how many are out there that are still current. What usually happens is you're given authorization that says, go ahead, you can build a structure, but there are conditions on that. The condition is you must provide compensation or offsetting. You must monitor that the compensation is working. You must report to us.

We do about 450 authorizations a year. We've looked back, and since 2008 there are about 275 that are still active in terms of requirements for a company or a proponent to monitor, or report, or something. So it's not a huge number out there, but it's really just those ones that are still active. It's about 275 since 2008.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Allen.

Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Could you tell the committee which lakes, rivers, and watercourses are now protected or will be protected under these changes to the Fisheries Act?

[Kevin Stringer]

It's going to depend. I know that's not a terrific answer, but it really is going to depend.

What's being done under the new Fisheries Act, or the amended Fisheries Act, is that we are protecting commercial, recreational, and aboriginal fisheries and the fish that contribute to those fisheries. It is a complex thing, and our science people, with our policy and program people, are trying to figure out exactly that.

The other thing is this. In inland areas and in freshwater areas, the fishery is managed by the provinces. So it's the provinces that decide where there's a fishery and what the licensing regime is, what you need a licence for. We're actually sitting down with the provinces now to identify where that is.

There's not a geographical map that shows there's an aboriginal fishery here, there's a commercial fishery over there. It's going to have to be decided on a case-by-case basis. That's the kind of work we're doing now to be able to better define that before this comes into effect.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

If a commercial fish eats another fish, the fish that's being eaten is protected.

[Kevin Stringer]

Yes. In fact it's not just prey species that a fish depends on necessarily. There are key ecological species in certain ecosystems. There are a number of others in terms of which fish support a fishery. Certainly prey species is the main one.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Does that continue, or does it stop at that one?

[Kevin Stringer]

That's one of the things we're working out: how far you have to go. Basically the idea is we are protecting the ongoing productivity of fisheries. To be able to do that you protect not just the fish in that fishery but what it depends on, whether that be habitat, or prey, or an ecological system, or aquatic invasive species, etc.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Justice Cohen was scathing in his comments about the changes to the Fisheries Act in his recent report. I'm wondering if you could provide the committee with a list of, as you mentioned earlier, the individuals, groups, and anyone who was consulted on the changes to the Fisheries Act, and when they were consulted. Perhaps you could provide that list to this committee.

[Kevin Stringer]

You know, in terms of consultations on this act, in terms of the specific amendments, we did not have specific consultations on the act. We did hear from stakeholders who said we'd like legal clarity in such-and-such an area. We can certainly provide that.

We talked to a number of stakeholders about the implementation of the act. We can provide that as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just as a brief clarification on the new paragraph 40(3)(a) of the post Bill C-38—basically the section that says you need to comply with the condition of an authorization—how is that going to be affected by the changes that are made here in Bill C-45?

[Kevin Stringer]

What we've got is in the transitional provisions. That piece says two things. It says that if you have an authorization under the previous regime, it continues as an authorization under the current regime.

It also says that Parliament has decided there is a new standard with respect to how these things are managed, and if you think you shouldn't need to continue with the conditions of your authorization, you can apply to the department or the minister within 90 days, and the department will review this within a further 120 days and decide whether the conditions of the authorization need to continue.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Kamp.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Just to clarify, it would be fair to say that you notified the national groups, the aboriginal groups. There was no consultation involved. Would that be correct?

[Kevin Stringer]

You know, as I said, there are different views about what constitutes consultation, but you're absolutely right in terms of what we have done. We have engaged with some groups in terms of how we're going to implement this legislation. I'm talking to them about how we're going to implement the legislation to ensure that they have a good understanding of it.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Also, if I understand it correctly, on the killing of fish, basically you're telling us that has not changed at all. Is that what you're telling us?