Fisheries Committee on June 2nd, 2014

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Well, thank you very much, and thank you for a good bill. I'll turn it over to Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

It's quite clear that seal populations are abundant. The hunt is well managed, and it's monitored very closely. I think the so-called animal cruelty issues have largely been resolved. Why do you think it is, then, that the animal rights extremists have continued to focus on the seal hunt, as opposed to issues that are a lot more important from a conservation perspective?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

One thing I know is that we have a sizable mink industry down in my neck of the woods, and you run into selective opposition, and pretty active opposition some days. I have to think that ignorance is a big part of it. You can still find photos of little white seal pups being pushed around by certain entities. I don't know how long it's been, but it's been a long time since seal pups were even considered a part of the legitimate seal hunt. Also, methods have changed and improved, as they have with other things.

I just think it's from some European interests. It's been an easy target to get people stirred up and say, look what those pesky devils over there in Canada are doing. So, I'm not sure, other than continuing to inform, and continuing to make it part of our international discussions. I think if people want to think of that as an ugly thing we do in Canada, they're going to continue doing so. But I'd say mainly ignorance is the big thing.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Personally, I think you're being far too generous. I think these people see this as a great fundraising tool and I think they know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it.

Can you talk about the effects that the growing seal population is having on the fish stocks in the Maritimes?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I know for a fact that, again down our way, a lot of fishermen like to keep rifles in their boats. Of course, I don't know that any are actually doing that, but there's always a sense that they are a real nuisance. People don't realize that when you get into the large seals, you're talking about a grey seal weighing 800 pounds and greater. That's a lot of animal out there. So there's a lot of debate, and I know you've talked to fisheries officials about what actual impact they have on the cod fishery, etc., and I expect that debate will go on. But there's no question they're pretty heavy eaters, so I know they do cause a lot of disruption out there.

Bob, there's one thing you said about the fundraising. Some of us who are a little older probably can remember when Brigitte Bardot was the lead spokesperson for years on the seal hunt. One of the fundraising things she did was to put on the market a number of ashtrays made out of animal hooves. I thought that was something strange for an animal activist, to use hooves of animals as ashtrays and put them up for a fundraiser for animal protection. Anyway, that's part of that ignorance thing I think I was referring to.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Can you talk about the unintended consequences that you could foresee happening as a result of your bill? What could possibly happen, apart from what you're trying to do with this bill?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I hope it only gives an extra tool or advantage to the authorities to protect the seal hunters. It's a pretty simple, straightforward activity and it creates more safety. So I think it should probably give some encouragement to the industry that the government is thinking in terms of the safety of the seal hunters. That's the first concern, the safety of the seal hunters.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Right.

I want to get back to the issue of the seal markets. In spite of the WTO ruling, there are other countries that don't have that kind of so-called sensibility or sensitivity. Do you see potential new markets for seal products developing over the next few years?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I really don't.... Are you talking in terms of a food product or the pelt?

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Any kind of product.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Well, the pelt.... Again, I'm more familiar with the mink industry. It's market-driven as much as anything, and I guess it depends on pricing and market penetration and so on. I know when we talk about the big grey ones, there's talk about dried food sources for many parts of the world. If in fact it panned out, that would make a very manageable and profitable type of business, I think. I'm sure we'd all like to see something like that happen.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.

I know the bells will start ringing here in a few minutes. I guess what I would ask is if there is consent to continue on after the bells start ringing, to give Mr. MacAulay his full 10 minutes. Then we wouldn't come back after the bells.

Are we in agreement on that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

All right, thank you.

Mr. MacAulay, the floor is yours.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Now I'm nervous.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Short minutes, Mr. Chair, but anyhow, thank you very much.

Mr. Kerr, thank you for doing this. There's a lot of different things about the seal harvest and your bill.... Your bill, of course, is a very small item as you've already said, but you indicate that the bill puts them from half a mile to a mile back from the hunt.

Do you not feel there's greater need for more security in order to make sure you can keep the people who are illegally there further back from the hunt? I wonder if you had any discussions with officials or the Department of Fisheries and Oceans or whatever department is going to make sure they keep them out of the way.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I think that's a worthy.... I was saying to the chair earlier that maybe there's some research the committee might like to work at, because there are people out there who really wonder why there are any observers at all. That's a long-standing process and one that wasn't part of this bill, as you know.

I think the industry has no problem with veterinarians and those who are watching to make sure the seal hunt is done correctly. But it's a little concerned about anybody who's there whose purpose is to disrupt the legal industry itself. So, Lawrence, I think it'd be a good conversation to follow up on. There are probably people who could speak a lot better to the topic than I could. But as an individual MP, I always think anything we can do to strengthen it is probably a good idea worth looking at.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

But, you have, Mr. Kerr, brought some attention to the seal harvest, and for that I thank you.

I don't believe there are any nature lovers out there at all. I believe there are people out there just to cause trouble and just to stop the hunt. Also, I hope there is enough enforcement to make sure that it is enforced to a mile, but that's up to the government.

When you were doing the consultation, or whatever consultation you did, did you consult with the Seals and Sealing Network, or the Fur Institute of Canada? If you did, what kinds of recommendations did they give you, or what did they have to say?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

It's interesting with the fur industry; some of the conversations spilled over between the mink and the seal.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Excuse me, but I believe also you indicated, if I read you correctly, that there is a great fear that what they're doing with the seal hunt.... If we're not careful, if this work continues on, it could affect some pretty valuable industries in this country other than the seal hunt.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I agree totally with that. I think the thing we all want to be concerned about, of course, is that there's a fairly large part of the world population that is totally against using pelts for anything. In other words, that's their issue. It's not about safety or any other issues. I think my point would be, if you started going through the inventory of everything that's done in the world, you could pretty well shut down the world economy. You would always find a group that was opposed to something that's done out there, and so on. We wouldn't be eating hamburgers and a lot of other stuff if that were to happen down the road.

I think you're right. The fur industry's concern is that, if there is something wrong with the process or the method they are carrying out, they would like to be consulted and talk about how they can make it better because they want to do it right. They know the sensitivity.

But if we don't stand strong with them, their concern is that there will be people picking away year after year, trying to erode or undermine what they are trying to do, regardless of whether it's seal or any fur industry. I think there is an interest in watching that we do stand up and are prepared to protect, in this case, the seal industry, but also that we are prepared to protect any legal fur industry that takes place in our country.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

You didn't actually say it, but I would take it that, if they took cameras into a slaughterhouse, there might be some problems, too, with some of the do-gooders who feel we should not have anything.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I'll take your word for that.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I think that's why we have to be really careful where we go.

There must have been some discussion about the 10-metre issue for the licensed observers. I would feel that is very close and a menace to the people who are on the ice trying to hunt the seal.