Evidence of meeting #37 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was enforcement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, it doesn't mean no. It means that I believe you've made a constructive suggestion that we, upon reflection, have thought is worth raising with our NAFO partners—
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Do you need their permission first before you can do that?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It is a cooperative agreement, yes, and—
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Do you think it's in Canada's best interests to get the permission of foreign nations to release the sort of information that could be used to build a case against, say, the weaknesses of NAFO?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We think it's important to work respectfully with our international partners. We think that transparency is important and are willing to discuss with them how NAFO can become more transparent in this respect, yes, so we appreciate your suggestion in that context.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Thank you. I would really appreciate that information, though. That would make my day.
In terms of illegally caught fish outside the 200-mile limit or illegally caught fish inside the 200-mile limit off the east coast, you mentioned global numbers the other day, but do you have any numbers specifically for the Grand Banks and the Flemish Cap?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Again, I will perhaps turn to Mr. MacLean, who may be able to offer greater precision than I on that matter.
As well, I don't know, Allan, if you were able to lay your hands on the document you were seeking in response to the earlier question.
Director General, Conservation and Protection, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
In response to the earlier question, I have breakdowns I have to go through, but going back to 2002, there were 34 citations issued. In 2014, there were nine. Since 2002 we've seen that steady trend downward. When there are changes in measures, sometimes we see a slight peak upwards, but we have seen traditionally a trend downward.
Your question was related to the value of IUU product or illegal product fished on the Grand Banks. Was that the question?
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
No, I'm just looking for an amount. Do you have an amount, for example, an estimate of the amount of illegally caught fish from the Grand Banks?
Director General, Conservation and Protection, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, we do not.
Director General, Conservation and Protection, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, I have nothing here, and I don't know if there has been an evaluation done on that.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Do you have an estimate of the amount of illegally caught fish brought into Canadian ports?
Director General, Conservation and Protection, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Not with me.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
But isn't this bill all about preventing illegally caught fish from coming into Canada?
Director General, Conservation and Protection, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
If the purpose of this is to prevent illegally caught fish from coming into Canada, don't you have any estimates on how much fish is coming into Canada, or any idea of what kind of problem it is, or the extent of this problem?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Allan or Angela may wish to offer their perspectives, but when we talk about IUU fishing, we are talking about a global problem. We know that the problem.... In global terms, Canada is a very minor contributor to it. We have a very robust regime—
NDP
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Well, by definition, it's hard to be certain about the level of illegal activity.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would guess that we would have data on enforcement actions taken where we have identified instances of illegal fishing. Obviously, almost by definition, we can't know about those that we did not observe, but we take action where we see them, and as a result are confident that it is a relatively minor problem in Canada.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Then why is this bill before the committee? If it's a relatively minor problem and you don't seem to have a grasp on the amount of illegally caught fish we're talking about, why are we taking the time to even look at this?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Well, because it is a very serious problem globally, and we are trying to do our part to help address a problem that is, although minor in Canada, serious globally. In so doing with this legislation, it is also our view that we will improve, in a very common-sense way, the enforcement powers of our fisheries officers and other law enforcement officials. We see there being a domestic benefit to this legislation, and it is also a Canadian contribution to resolving what is a serious global problem.