Evidence of meeting #112 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was audit.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I don't have them specifically.
Generally, they relate to entanglement and gear restrictions that Canadian fisher people have to implement for us to maintain access to the U.S. market, but Elsa probably has those details.
October 23rd, 2018 / 4:40 p.m.
Elsa Da Costa Director, Office of the Auditor General
Specifically, I don't know all the minor details, but it's to address bycatch and entanglement, bycatch being the capture and retention of species. Entanglement is entanglement in fishing gear.
Those are the two key areas they're looking at under the Marine Mammal Protection Act in the U.S. They have imposed this on their own fisheries, and they are now imposing it on their imports. Canada has quite a large number of exports.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
4:40 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
It's a big issue.
If you want more details, I'm sure we can get back to you on that.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
In your audit, how did DFO respond to you? How are they planning to conform to this American standard?
4:40 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
They're very aware of it.
My understanding is they are planning to meet those requirements. We were very careful in the use of our language in the audit to ensure we weren't putting those markets at risk. My understanding is they want to be ready and they will be ready.
That's a great question to ask the department.
We need to be ready.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Did you uncover anything in the audit that would have shed some light on how we arrived at the situation in 2017?
It was dramatic year over year.
4:40 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
It was.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
4:40 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
We looked at all the different tools we have at our disposal to protect marine mammals and we found that generally they weren't being used. The other thing we found was the collaboration between all the various departments...one of the problems is that we have so many players in this: the Coast Guard, Transport Canada, Environment Canada and DFO. They're all part of the solution and the collaboration...although we did see it work, once they started acting. Before that, it's almost as if there wasn't any pressure to act.
They have several tools at their disposal, such as, marine protected areas, species at risk, the marine mammal regulations, which had been proposed in 2012 and only got implemented in 2018 while we were doing our audit.
I don't know how to answer why they didn't act before. They had a variety of tools and we found that the action happened after there was a severe incident and then all of a sudden, we started to see a whole bunch of action. Why there wasn't action before is a great question to ask the departments.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You made an observation in your comments, as well as in your report, that DFO is not adequately trained to respond to marine mammals in distress. You said:
There are around 900 incidents of distressed marine mammals each year, and very few people are trained to help.
Again, going back to the east coast, you had the tragic situation that occurred when they were responding. Were they not trained?
4:45 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
We found that on the west coast it's Fisheries and Oceans Canada that responds to the calls directly. On the east coast, it's a network of third party responders, NGOs and individuals that respond.
There are not very many people who are trained within DFO to do this. We found that there was no national guidance for the partners to respond to incidents. Each partner developed its own protocol for how to respond to the incidents. There were inconsistent responses, a lack of clarity about roles and responsibilities, and frankly, just so few people who can do it.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Who was ordering the responses on the east coast? Whoever responded to a marine mammal in distress, could you identify who actually initiated it?
4:45 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Do we know that?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Office of the Auditor General
As Julie stated, on the west coast it's done by the federal government.
On the east coast, they use a network of mostly conservation organizations that do that. They mainly get contracted to set up the hotline. These typically serve fishermen who might find a large mammal, or the Canadian population that finds any type of marine animal in distress. It could be beached. It could be stranded. It could be entangled. It could be dead.
They call the hotline that is usually set up by these networks, and then they go and respond. Sometimes the response could be as simple as dealing with a seal in a Tim Hortons parking lot in Newfoundland—
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
There. It just proves that they do live on burgers from McDonald's.
4:45 p.m.
Director, Office of the Auditor General
—or it could be a large whale entangled in fishing gear and someone needs to come and help untangle it.
The disentanglement of large whales is what few people are able to do. It is high risk and there are few people trained in Canada to do it.
4:45 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I would say, generally, Canadians respond sometimes. These things wash up on the shore—
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Just so I'm clear, on the west coast it's totally DFO's responsibility—
4:45 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
It's DFO.
4:45 p.m.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.
We'll go to Mr. Sopuck from the Conservative Party, for seven minutes.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you very much.
On page 6, you talk about the direct threats to marine mammals and the threats posed by commercial fishing, such as bycatch, entanglement in fishing gear, depletion of marine mammals' food resources, threats posed by marine vessels, oil spills, collisions with ships, and chronic noise and disturbance.
I notice that you did not include the whale watching industry. In your view, is the whale watching industry a threat to marine mammal resources?
4:45 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
We identified shipping and—
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
I understand that. Time is limited here, so I'm asking very direct questions.
You did not include the whale watching industry. Is the whale watching industry a threat to whale populations?
4:50 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I can't make make a comment on that. What I can tell you is the marine mammal regulations are partly aimed at whale watching operations and they've set distances for those boats with regard to marine mammals.