Evidence of meeting #112 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was audit.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Yes, all our staff are independent from government.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
They're independent from government as well. They're academics often, or from NGOs. Some are industry people. I believe on this one we had the aquaculture industry as one of our experts. No, that's on the other one. We had somebody from the shipping federation helping us with this audit.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
No fault to you, but I believe the title of the report is very misleading, “Protecting Marine Mammals”. The report didn't look at the minimal impact of recreational fishing. It didn't look at the significant impact of competitive predator species. It didn't look at the potential impact of armed forces naval operations on the west coast. We've seen in the past that those were of considerable concern. Are those things that could be looked at in the future?
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Absolutely.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
What would it take for those to become a priority?
We just heard from Mr. Sopuck about the incredible increase in seal and sea lion populations on the west coast competing for the same food sources as the southern resident killer whales.
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
As commissioner I report to Parliament, and if Parliament, particularly if a committee from all three parties, indicates that an issue is of importance to them, it definitely rises in our level of priorities. We do a lot of scanning. We do something called strategic audit planning. We identify the biggest risks, but ultimately the decision about what to audit and when lies right here on my shoulders. We report to Parliament.
If parliamentarians say, “Madam Commissioner, an audit on this particular issue would be really useful,” and if it comes from a committee, that brings the issue much higher. If an individual MP asks for it, then it's not the same.
For example, the Cohen commission is in our list to look at, to see whether or not the government is telling us that its recommendations are 100% implemented. That's the kind of thing we would look at, potentially.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
During this audit, were you able to determine what level of consultation with stakeholders was undertaken before regulations were changed or enforcement was stepped up?
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
We did not look at that in this audit.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
It would seem to me that would be a significant part of it, that there be consultations with the stakeholders before regulations are changed, and yet you didn't look at that.
5:10 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
We didn't look at that issue because we were looking to see whether or not what was in place was being utilized. We saw marine mammal regulations that had been proposed since 2012 and had been sitting there. They only were implemented in 2018, as a result of our audit.
Often, our audits spark action on the part of a department. Nobody likes getting a bad report card. When they know we're coming in to do an audit, they try to fix things. During our audit they try to fix things. You see that a lot in this audit, when they say, “We're doing it. We're doing it,” and we keep saying, “That's great, but you're just doing it now. We are looking at what you've done in the last five years. You hadn't done much, and now you're doing things.”
It's good that they're doing things and that they're acting, and that's their job to do.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
In both of these reports we've discussed today, I would imagine there was an initial draft report from your office. Does that draft report go back and forth for revisions before you get to the final time?
October 23rd, 2018 / 5:15 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Absolutely.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
The deputy minister signs off that everything in our audit is factually accurate. That's the ultimate accountability. In the meantime, we must go back and forth for months before we actually land on something that everybody can agree with.
5:15 p.m.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you, Mr. Arnold.
We go back to the government side now, to Mr. Hardie for five minutes.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Have you done this analysis before?
5:15 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Have we looked at the protection of marine animals before?
5:15 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I do not believe we have. I believe this is our first audit on this issue.
Is that correct?
5:15 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
Yes, I'm pretty sure. Our office has been around for 20 years, so I don't know all of them off of the top of my head, but I don't believe we have actually looked at this issue in the past.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
What prompted you to make this issue something that you wanted to study?
5:15 p.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
That's a great question. We were looking at another topic, I remember, that somebody had brought forward.
Do you remember how we got there?