Fisheries Committee on Nov. 1st, 2018

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay, thanks. I'm almost out of time, but why hasn't an emergency order been issued?

[Philippe Morel]

The minister has the obligation under SARA to present an emergency order to cabinet when he's ready, and when he will be ready, he will do so and present the decision of cabinet, so that's something I can't comment on.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Thank you.

Now we'll go back to the government side for seven minutes. Mr. Rogers, go ahead, please.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Ms. Gelfand is becoming very familiar. We've seen her on a number of occasions in different committees.

A couple of questions I want to focus on are primarily on the east coast of the country, which I'm most familiar with, being from Newfoundland and Labrador in Atlantic Canada. We've heard from an array of witnesses from the shipping industry, the fishing industry and experts in the science field and so on, and they've talked about proactive measures that are happening now to protect the right whale after a disastrous 2017. Obviously we have to do something to protect these mammals. I've heard concerns, though, not so much from the shipping community as from the fishing community.

In your statement, Mr. Burns, you said, “ln fact, thanks to the tremendous collaboration from the fishing and transport industries in implementing 2018 measures, there have been no observed North Atlantic right whale deaths in Canadian waters this year”, which is great.

However, I get a sense from the people in the fishing industry, the unions and some of the people we heard from that they don't necessarily totally agree with some of the measures the department is implementing. For instance, lobster fishermen in P.E.I. and some of the groups in Grand Manan and the Gaspé peninsula talk about how the lobster industry primarily is the coastline, and it's done in probably less than 120 feet of water. Whales, they say, don't necessarily frequent that part of the bays and so on. They say when whales are spotted 10 kilometres or 15 kilometres offshore, all of a sudden their fishing industry is closed, which is devastating for the fishermen there who are making their living from the lobster fishery.

Has the department been paying close attention to these people and their concerns? They're certainly expressing their concerns to us about whether or not that's the right thing to do.

[Adam Burns]

Yes, we've certainly heard very loud and clear the views of the industry around, in particular, the point that you're making about the likelihood of the presence of right whales in those shallower water depths.

The reality is right whales are spotted within their range in those depths of water. We have sought additional science that, again, we'll be getting in December that would help us better understand what the likelihood of their presence in those shallow depths of water within the Canadian zone might be.

We certainly understand the impact these measures have had on harvesters, so we're certainly looking at it.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

The other comment that a couple of gentlemen made, and one of the scientists we had that I think Moira Brown mentioned, was that some of the right whales were entangled in active fishing gear, yet some were entangled in ghost fishing gear.

What is the department doing about trying to clean up some of that ghost fishing gear?

[Adam Burns]

Certainly the issue of ghost gear is not unique to Atlantic Canada and Quebec. It's a global issue. Canada recently signed on to the global ghost gear initiative, which aims at reducing this problem globally.

We've implemented some measures this year, this past fishing season, around requiring the reporting of lost gear. Our fisheries officers have also taken opportunities to pull abandoned gear if they sight it. Certainly that is another area we'll be looking at strengthening.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

You mentioned as well in your report that the measures included fostering innovation in fishing technologies and methods, and you said the department continues to do so. Can you elaborate on that a little?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, sure. It's the idea of being able to fish without the vertical lines in the water. They are the key risk factor for right whales in particular, in terms of entanglements. Technologies that would allow harvesters to set traps without requiring those vertical lines would go a huge way in solving the challenge of whales getting entangled. The technology is not fully developed such that it could be implemented in any sort of broadly used commercial application within the Canadian zone. There are some small fisheries in the U.S. that do have fairly broad application, but it's a small number of harvesters and very different circumstances than in, for example, the Gulf of St. Lawrence. However, we are very focused on working with harvester groups and industry, such as rope manufacturers and that sort of thing.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you for that.

There probably are a number of questions I could ask, but I want to get to Ms. Gelfand for a second.

In your statement, in paragraph number 2, you mentioned there are about 40 species of marine mammals such as whales, dolphins and seals and that 14 populations are on the endangered or threatened species list.

I just want to make this comment for the record. I can assure you that seals are not an endangered species on the east coast of Canada, particularly around Newfoundland and Labrador. I raised this issue yesterday. In fact, we need some firm action on how we're going to deal with these seals going forward, because they're doing tremendous damage. They eat chinook, and I can assure you they're eating cod as well. I just wanted to get that point in there, because we've discussed this in the Atlantic caucus and with different groups. I want to identify and flag that point.

I'm assuming your report is referencing most of the things that happened prior to 2018.

[Julie Gelfand]

When I indicated whales, dolphins and seals, I was giving examples of the types of marine mammals that we have in Canada, not that they were endangered.

I can tell you there is one small population of harbour seal that is on the endangered species list, and it's from Lacs des Loups Marins, so it's a very specific subpopulation. It is considered endangered. It was listed in 2017. That is the only one on our list.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Yes, and certainly it's not existing on the east coast.

[Julie Gelfand]

I did not mean to make it sound like harbour seals generally were endangered. I was giving you examples of marine mammals.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

We're done.

[The Chair]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Rogers.

We'll now go to the Conservative side for five minutes or less. Go ahead, Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Red Deer—Lacombe, CPC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the officials for being here.

There's data from multiple sources that indicate the extirpation of the southern resident killer whale population is actually not in fact imminent. The population of the southern resident killer whale has fluctuated between 70 and 90 individuals since about the mid-seventies. Would you agree with that?

[Philippe Morel]

Yes, that's the case, but decreasing since the 1970s—

[Blaine Calkins]

No, no. That's just fine.

The current population is about—

[Philippe Morel]

If you want a complete answer, it's been decreasing since that—

[Blaine Calkins]

No, no—I know. I'm a biologist.

Let me make my point. This is my time.

The current population is around 74 or 76. Did I hear you say that correctly?

[Philippe Morel]

It's 74.

[Blaine Calkins]

They're in decline. They haven't shown an increase in population for how many years now?

[Philippe Morel]

I don't have the graph with me, but it's been constant for the last 10 years—

[Blaine Calkins]

Then they've either held or—