Evidence of meeting #117 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was whales.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's a flame retardant that's also used in clothing, mainly.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you.
Go ahead, Mr. Donnelly, please, for seven minutes or less.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our departmental officials and the environment commissioner and her team for being here today on this topic of whales.
My first question is for you, Mr. Burns. You referenced the $1.5-billion investment. How much has been spent to date on that program?
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't have the number. That's something we can provide to you. I don't have it.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I wouldn't want to make a guess, but we can provide that information to the committee.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are several reasons for that. It's multiple departments, so we don't have that with us. What I can say—
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't have the exact numbers for the OPP and DFO. What I can tell you is that last year we spent all the money that was planned for OPP and DFO.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, so we can provide you with the table of how much was planned and how much was spent, for sure.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you.
Specifically, how much was spent on protecting the southern resident killer whale? I'm assuming you don't know that either.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, but it's something we can provide you.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Yes, that would be helpful, because we're talking about endangered whales that have been listed since 2003, so if there's a protection plan with a funding announcement, you would think the department could target a certain amount of money to be spent to protect these whales.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I know that in the OPP there's about $800 million that is in investments directly and indirectly—
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
I'm not talking about announcements; I'm talking about what's been spent. That's a big difference.
I get the investment. I get the announcements. I want to know what's been spent, because that's what people want to know. It's what the environment commissioner is telling us. It's what actions, what measures, have been taken, not what we're looking to for the future. I'd appreciate the committee receiving that information.
In that line, southern resident killer whales were listed in 2003. Why has it taken the government until this year to implement what you—and I hope we—feel are effective measures and actions with regard to noise reduction, prey and pollution for southern resident killer whales?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It takes time to have all the stakeholders engage in measures. It took also a lot of science, and we still need some science to define if the measures that are anticipated will have a positive impact and how much. The reason is not that we're not doing anything. It's that we had to prepare to make sure that the actions that were announced yesterday or previously in the whales initiative or in the OPP are supported by sound science and will also be efficient and measurable.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
That's fair. However, we knew in the nineties that these whales were in trouble. We knew in 2001 that they were going to be listed. They were listed in 2003. Are we talking two decades to do that kind of engagement and get the science that's needed to save this one particular segment of whales?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't have all the details of all the actions that were taken, but what was announced yesterday is additional measures. We've taken many measures in the recent past, and we've also taken other fisheries management measures over the last years, and we are implementing the action plan and the recovery strategy that is being revised right now. We put in place some critical habitats, also, to support the whales. What we've seen recently is more decrease, so we are responding with more action.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
One of the things the minister said in his statement was that he'll take a closer look at enhancing food sources for whales by putting money into a new hatchery to increase the stock of chinook salmon. I support that announcement, but why didn't the government implement a chinook enhancement or restoration or rebuild plan, say, a decade ago?
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
This is just an increase in the level of hatchery production. There is existing hatchery production, which produces an estimated 100,000 to 300,000 adult chinook salmon annually. This is just an increase in that level. It's not the first time.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
I get that. The question, though, is why wouldn't the government take action, I'm saying 10 years ago, on something that they realized would take so long, with stakeholder engagement and with a science-based approach, which is important? Why wait until now when we know these essentially dying animals aren't increasing in this very critical...?
We heard testimony today from first nations in that area in the Salish Sea who say that these whales are connected spiritually to their way of life. That's a pretty strong statement of how connected these whales are, and there are 74. Many Canadians are wondering too why the government wouldn't have implemented some of these enhancement plans or rebuilding plans a decade ago. Even the environment commissioner has stated with regard to recovery plans that you have four of 14 strategies done, and zero done on time. It doesn't look like a good track record.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The hatchery production of salmon has been in place for a number of years, producing large numbers of chinook salmon annually that have.... The minister announced yesterday that would be increased, so it shouldn't be seen as the first time these actions have been undertaken.
I know a critical habitat was put in place as far back as 2009, so there is a history of measures related to this issue. Certainly over the last couple of years, starting with the oceans protection plan, a real focus has been put on an increase in activity.
