Fisheries Committee on Nov. 20th, 2018

[Jen O'Donoughue]

The actual spending last fiscal year was $152 million, and $800 million has been announced in terms of spending for 2017 and 2018.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

So out of $1.5 billion, approximately 10% has actually been spent?

[Jen O'Donoughue]

The amount of money for the oceans protection plan was over five years for all of those departments, so there is specifically planned spending in each year. That was approximately what the planned spending was for last year.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

In terms of the icebreaker plan for the Canadian Coast Guard, a Canadian Press report states that the three Norwegian-made icebreakers will cost up to 30% more than projected due to import tariffs, brokerage fees and other costs. Why were these tariffs and additional costs not included in DFO's original estimate?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

Let me start the answer, and then maybe I'll ask the Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard to supplement it. The original number was actually the contract with Chantier Davie Canada for the acquisition of the three icebreakers. The additional costs that were budgeted within the government are to cover things that are separate from the contract. The vast majority of those are tariffs. Essentially, we pay them and get them back, so they are a net-net no-cost. There are some modest conversion costs that are associated with that.

That's generally the explanation, but maybe I'll ask the commissioner to supplement that

[Jeffery Hutchinson, Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

That's exactly right, Minister. By separating out the $610,000, it actually gives a line of sight on how much the contract is for the delivery of the vessels, including bringing the first of the three vessels to a regulatory standard that will allow us to use it this year. Much of that other money, as the minister has already noted, flows back to Canada. Those import tariffs, for example, leave one pocket and come back to the other pocket, so they're not reflective of a true cost. If we included them in the total cost of the contract, it would actually make ship-purchase and shipbuilding contracts more difficult to compare, rather than less difficult.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Minister, over the past year there have been some significant restrictions placed on fishers on both coasts in regard to the protection of whales, both the right whales on the east coast and the southern resident killer whales on the west coast. These significant restrictions were put in place after lengthy consultation with the locals, with the fishing groups and with advisory boards, yet the restrictions that were put in place on the west coast were not in line with what was recommended by the groups that had consulted heavily with Fisheries.

They have impacted those local economies significantly in a negative way. Have you had any discussions with those communities on those negative impacts, and have you had any indication of positive results from those significant restrictions that were put in place?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

Let me talk a little about the southern resident killer whale, and then I'll ask the parliamentary secretary to talk about the right whale.

As you know, in Canada we have the Species at Risk Act, and both of these species are endangered. There is an imminent threat. There was a finding of an imminent threat to the southern resident killer whale, and that means that there is a requirement for the government to act to address the biological needs.

Of course, in looking at how to best do that, we think through various pathways to get there and certainly look at options that will have the least economic impact. The consultations that go on with fishing communities, both recreational and commercial, and with the transportation industry, in terms of shipping, are all very important.

I've had many conversations with both, including a chamber of commerce roundtable with many of the west coast of Vancouver Island communities that are actually involved in this fishery. We are certainly looking to incorporate their thoughts and concerns into how we go forward, but the bottom line is that we need to act to address the critical issues facing these whales. We will do so and have been doing so in a manner as sensitive as possible from an economic perspective.

[The Chair]

I'm sorry, Mr. Casey, you'll have to try to get that in on a later question, perhaps. Time is up.

Now we go to the NDP and Mr. Donnelly for seven minutes or less, please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the minister and his team of officials.

Minister, on the topic of owner-operator and fleet separation on the west coast, the federal government has a duty to conserve, manage and develop the fishery in the public interest and for the benefit of Canadians. The best way to do that is to keep fishing licences in the hands of the people who fish and live in the fishing communities.

This week we celebrate World Fisheries Day, and I'll be meeting with fishers from British Columbia who want to know whether you, as a minister from British Columbia, support owner-operator and fleet separation for B.C. fishers.

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

As you know, in Bill C-68, there are a number of provisions that relate to the owner-operator policies, although those policies apply primarily in the Atlantic provinces and Quebec.

We certainly are aware that there are some in the Pacific region who are interested in seeing measures similar to those in Atlantic Canada. There are others who have a different perspective on that, and that is something that we are thinking of and discussing. We're very interested in the work the committee is going to be doing with respect to this issue. I think it will help us in the context of trying to figure out what the right pathway is here.

Sylvie, do you want to make any further comment?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I think you've covered it, Minister, and I have a few other questions and short time.

On the Cohen Commission recommendations, you recently announced that the department had acted on all of Justice Cohen's recommendations. However, recommendation 75—and I'll just remind you—reads:

An independent body such as the office of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development should report to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans and to the public as follows:

And there's a schedule:

By March 31, 2014, and every two years thereafter during implementation of the Wild Salmon Policy, on progress in implementing the policy in relation to Fraser River sockeye salmon. By September 30, 2015, on the extent to which and the manner in which this Commission's recommendations have been implemented.

So, we've heard from the department about the status of the implementation of Cohen's recommendations, but we haven't heard from an independent body as per recommendation 75. Do you plan on acting on recommendation 75 by asking the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to report to the committee and the public on the extent to which and the manner in which the Cohen Commission's recommendations have been implemented to date?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

I think my precise wording was that we had responded to and described the actions we had taken in response to the various recommendations of the Cohen report. I didn't say that we had acted on exactly what the commissioner had said on every one of those recommendations.

We certainly are interested in moving forward. We are working very actively with the Province of British Columbia on trying to align what we are doing, not just for sockeye salmon but for salmon more generally in British Columbia, and ensuring that we have a holistic approach to ensuring that we are doing everything we possibly can to sustain those runs that are healthy and to turn around some of those runs that are clearly not.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

But, reporting to the public, an independent body—is there a commitment for that one?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

As I mentioned, we've been very transparent. Everything we are doing is now published online, and so we're transparent. The Commissioner has the full ability to review whatever it is that she wants to review, as she has done in areas like aquaculture.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay.

I'll turn to another subject—sport fishing in British Columbia. Sport fishers are seeking a regulation change and getting nowhere with department officials on what I think appears to be a fairly straightforward change. They're seeking to have the current description, that catch records must be recorded on a tidal angling licence in “ink”, changed to being recorded “permanently”. So it's a one-word change—ink to permanent.

That would eliminate the necessity of printing a licence on paper and allow for electronic record keeping, which then becomes transferable.

Can you help resolve this matter?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

Yes. Gerry Kristianson has raised this with me a few times. Certainly directionally I think we're supportive, but maybe I can turn it over to Kevin and he can talk a little bit about where we are with that.

[Kevin Stringer, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

We've all had the same visitation on that issue. It is a small change in terms of a regulation that would make it much easier to move forward on some of the things that the recreational fishery wants to do and we want to do on monitoring, on being more modern and on being able to use the fisher app that they've developed.

We are seeking to have this done. We're working on a number of small regulatory changes—this being one of them—so we are on it.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Great, and I think they would appreciate that commitment. Thanks, Minister.

On the oceans protection plan, supplementary estimates include $5.3 million to improve marine safety under the OPP. I think we can all agree that's a tiny amount. The question that I was going to ask has been asked: How much has been spent to date? The answer was $152 million. I think, Minister, you said $800 million has been announced. Can you provide the committee with a complete list of initiatives including information such as geographic location, amount of funding and description of the projects funded by the OPP? That's something that we tried to track down on the websites of different departments, and we find it depends whether it's Fisheries or Transport Canada, etc., so having that sent to the committee would be helpful.

In the remaining seconds, could you tell me if the department knows whether the technology to clean up dilbit exists? We've talked about this in the past.

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

With respect to your request, we can certainly pull together a list of everything that's been announced across departments. That's not a problem.

In terms of diluted bitumen—and you and I have had many conversations about this—there is a lot of information out there both about the behaviour of diluted bitumen relative to conventional crudes and also about the effectiveness of various cleanup methods. That's all very public, and there's more science and more information that's being published all the time.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Is the technology in place to clean it up?

[Jonathan Wilkinson]

Some of the investments that we're making with respect to the Coast Guard are exactly about that, absolutely.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.

Now we'll go to the government side again, to Mr. Rogers for seven minutes or less.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister and guests, thank you for being here. I have a couple of questions around Coast Guard issues, so perhaps Mr. Hutchinson can also chime in on some of this. Could you provide an update on the lifeboat stations in Newfoundland and Labrador, which are to be constructed in Old Perlican, Twillingate and St. Anthony? What is the timeline for completion, and when will they become operational?