Fisheries Committee on Nov. 29th, 2018

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Recommendation 18 in the Cohen commission report states:

If at any time between now and September 30, 2020, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans determines that net-pen salmon farms in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) pose more than a minimal risk of serious harm to the health of migrating Fraser River sockeye salmon, he or she should promptly order that those salmon farms cease operations.

Can I take it that since there has been no order to those farms to cease operations, there has been no indication of anything more than minimal risk from the net-pen aquaculture at this time?

[Philippe Morel]

Mr. Thomson, do you want to answer this one?

[Andrew Thomson]

No, there has been no order. My colleague, Wayne, can further lay out that it's part of the process of going through a series of risk assessments under the Canadian science advisory secretariat umbrella and looking at the pathogens that are currently present and determining what that risk is, in terms of transmission and impact on Fraser sockeye, as per the Cohen recommendations. There have been a number of these scheduled and a few of them performed.

My colleague can probably outline which have been performed to date.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

The question is quite clear. Have there been any instances of, as the recommendation says, “more than a minimal risk of serious harm to the health of migrating Fraser River sockeye”?

[Wayne Moore]

On the risk assessment, we've committed to do 10. We've completed and published one. The next four have just been completed and we're in the process of seeking the lead author's approval.

The first one determined that there was no more than a minimal risk. Right now we have not seen anything that would suggest there is more than a minimal risk, which would lead to triggering Commissioner Cohen's condition.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

You still have five to do. This report came out in 2013, and that is five years ago. You have two years left.

At what stage are you on the other five?

[Wayne Moore]

That is an excellent question. Thank you to the member, via the Chair.

As I mentioned, the first one is completed and published. We have recently held a peer review on the next four with a set of scientists from inside the department. External experts have looked over the next four as well, which are really bacteria-driven pathogens. That's in the process of being finalized.

The steering committee just met for the sixth one yesterday. That work is well under way. We're targeting the end of January for that peer review with external experts. We're reaching out for data from a wide range of sources.

We'll finish the next four over the course of 2019 and the beginning of 2020 because some of them can be done in pairs. As well, we'll do a summative one, which looks at the cumulative impact of all these disease risks. Looking at them one by one is not sufficient in and of itself, so we also want to do a summary piece.

We're confident that we can meet the timeline set out in the response here, as well as by Commissioner Cohen.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

We'll now move to Mr. Donnelly, for seven minutes or less, please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the departmental officials for being here on this important discussion.

I want to continue on the aquaculture discussion.

Disease, viruses and sea lice have been a long-standing problem with aquaculture. I am going to specifically focus on the west coast because that's where I'm from and that's what prompted me to become an MP back in 2009. It was on this one. It was former prime minister Stephen Harper who called the inquiry into the missing sockeye salmon in the Fraser River. That is something I got involved in right off the bat, before becoming an MP. That was in 2009.

I want to specifically focus on PRV and HSMI. Why has it taken so long to put together an interdepartmental committee to finally focus on this? I'm just hearing 2018. This has been an issue for over 10 years. I know it's been longer. Why has it taken so long?

[Wayne Moore]

I think, in fact, there's been a great deal of work done on PRV. What we're seeing now is a very formal, structured risk assessment of the impacts of not just PRV but—

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Sorry to interrupt, but you're talking about what's happening now. Why has it taken 10 years?

[Wayne Moore]

I would suggest that, in order to get to this point, it's required a lot of research and input.

In fact, in 2015, there was a fairly substantive science advisory process, which had a science response that summarized the knowledge to date around PRV, HSMI and idiopathic heart disease as well.

We've been investing in research. Research doesn't happen overnight.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Fair enough. That's a good answer, thanks. It's taken a long time to do your research, and I appreciate that.

When I was here in 2009, it was all about sea lice. We had departmental science on one side, academic science on the other, industry, etc. It was a major battle. It continues to be that way, it seems.

Has the government ever allowed, or is it allowing, diseased salmon eggs into the country?

[Dr. Penny Greenwood]

CFIA, under the national aquatic animal health program, controls imports of live fish as well as germ plasm from fish, and that would include fish eggs. We have very strict import conditions associated with disease. We do not allow any eggs into the country that we feel would be a risk for any of the diseases that we don't have or that are not controlled to the degree that we control them within Canada.

We're pretty stringent on our import controls for salmon eggs coming into Canada.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Can I safely assume that's a no?

[Dr. Penny Greenwood]

That we haven't had any come into Canada?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Salmon eggs, yes. On the west coast.

[Dr. Penny Greenwood]

That is not my area of expertise. My colleagues take care of imports. I wouldn't have the stats at my fingertips.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Is it possible to get that to this committee?

[Philippe Morel]

I think Mr. Thomson may have....

[Andrew Thomson]

We do have statistics on the imports. It's been a number of years since we've had any importation of salmon eggs to the west coast of British Columbia. The vast majority of the industry, if not all of the industry, operates on domesticated stock that produces its own brood stock and egg source within British Columbia.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm not sure, Andy. Is that a yes or a no?

You're saying it's been a while. I get that. When we did, did we ever let diseased eggs into the country? It sounds like you're saying no.

[Andrew Thomson]

You're asking for an absolute. The reality is, we've had importations of fish eggs going back into the late 1800s. There was a series of importations of salmon eggs that go back a long period of time.

If you're asking me to certify that, in 1850 or 1880, there was no disease on those eggs, I'm not sure I would be able to do so.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay, I could have clarified and asked about the last 10 or 20 years, but fair enough. I'm not sure if, back at the turn of the last century, it was as much of an issue as it is now, but I can tell you that the industry is having a hard time continuing, because this is a continuing issue today. It has been since I've been an MP, which is almost a decade.

That's the focus that I'm getting at. We hear a lot of he-said-she-said on science. What I think this industry wants is certainty to move on. What the commercial fishers and first nations along the west coast want is certainty that their way of life is not being impacted.

I know salmon sport and recreational fishers are concerned that disease coming in from Norway or other countries is affecting our wild salmon. They rely, as we do, on the department and the Government of Canada to protect them and their industry.

I'm not trying to be glib, and I'm not trying to get a certain answer. I'm hoping for a certain answer. I'm hoping the answer is no, we've never let any diseased eggs in the country, because that's the accusation; that's what we're hearing. It would be good to know that.

In terms of the interdepartmental committee, have we spoken to Norway and taken advantage of their advice and what they've been going through with this problem? They have a more mature industry than we have. Has Canada spoken to Norway?