Fisheries Committee on Jan. 30th, 2019

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

We do witness the fact that the barriers to entry for newcomers, even intergenerational transfers, could be a little sticky. I'll get to that point in a moment.

I want to go back to Dr. Donkersloot. You've indicated that there's an inequitable sharing of the wealth in the Alaskan fishery. It would appear that the small, community-based operators might not be as advantaged as some of the big players. When we think of the small ones that aren't doing as well as the average, there's a cost to government in there somewhere, is there not?

[Rachel Donkersloot]

There is, yes.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Can you just give us a sense? Far too often, we focus on the dollars and cents. That's an area where there's probably been at least more oversight than in any of the social and cultural areas. The cultural, maybe with respect to the indigenous peoples here, has been looked after. The broader cost that we face could suggest that we need to consider making the shift from the pure dollars-and-cents approach of an efficient fishery to one that accounts for the additional costs that governments and society face. Perhaps we need to come up with a better balance, a better arrangement. What are your thoughts on that?

[Rachel Donkersloot]

Yes, we often talk about managing fisheries in the context of trade-offs, oftentimes in the context of efficiencies. In the case of Alaska, I feel like our managers know very well the broader costs associated with the loss of access to local fisheries, and that includes not only income and local employment. We want our communities to be self-sufficient and thriving, but there are food security issues related to that with regard to access to subsistence fisheries and the role that our commercial fishery permit holders play in harvesting subsistence resources in rural communities.

There's local opportunity around the single most important employment opportunity in the community and what comes with that: The ability for your children to be able to stay in the community if they want to, to continue on in the livelihood if they want to. There are social roles and responsibilities. There are attachments to your community, to your place. There are a lot of quantifiable and also unquantifiable values and losses associated with closing access to fisheries.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As usual with these studies, as the answers come out, we start to have more and more questions being asked and we quickly run out of time. I'm going to try to ask for some snap answers here, if I can, quickly.

Ms. Donkersloot, your hatchery fish in Alaska, are they all marked before they're released?

[Rachel Donkersloot]

I don't know. I can send that in a link.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay, perhaps we could find that out and report back to the analysts.

[Rachel Donkersloot]

Actually, I don't think they are. Now that I think about it, I don't think they are. One way that they are studying them is through some part of the.... I'm quite sure they're not all marked.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Ms. Reid, I have the same question. In B.C. are all hatchery-marked fish released, or is there a system for determining the number of hatchery fish versus wild stock that are returning?

[Rebecca Reid]

We do have controls over the number of hatchery fish for any particular area. They are not all marked, but we do measure and monitor. We know what's out there and what comes back versus the wild stock. We do collect that information, yes.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

How reliable is that information?

[Rebecca Reid]

That would depend on the stock assessment information of the area. I would say it's variable.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Ms. Donkersloot, you talked about your assessments in Alaska, how they have changed recently and the results of those assessments. Would you say the assessment process itself is adequate or robust or reliable?

[Rachel Donkersloot]

To clarify, are you talking about stock assessments?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Yes.

[Rachel Donkersloot]

Yes, I think the north Pacific has been a leader in relying on the best available science and working in the context of sound management, of which stock assessment is the best.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Reid, you have mentioned various factors that come into the management decisions on our west coast. Are DFO's basic stock assessments for the Pacific salmon fisheries current and up to date?

[Rebecca Reid]

DFO invests a lot of money in salmon stock assessment. There are still gaps that exist. Particularly as the ocean conditions become harder to predict and there's more variability and interest in managing more closely so that you have greater opportunities to harvest in smaller areas, you need more data. There is a continuing need for data, although there have been recent new investments and ongoing investments in salmon stock assessment.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Are the current stock assessments up to date with the programs?

[Rebecca Reid]

Well, some are, but we are relying on some very old datasets in some cases.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

I have a slightly different lineup of questions now for Ms. Reid. Who would be responsible for designing a plan to reshape B.C.'s fisheries allocation, if that were to take place?

[Rebecca Reid]

The minister of fisheries and oceans has ultimate authority over all management decisions, so he would task the department to undertake work like that. We would do it in a consultative way. We would work with the industry and interest groups to develop the principles and guidelines, if that's what you mean.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

You just answered part two of three parts. Do you anticipate there would be the need for compensation systems, should allocation have to be redistributed?