Fisheries Committee on Jan. 30th, 2019

[Andrew Thomson]

In terms of landed value, I don't have the GDP figures off the top of my head but for comparison, the commercial fishery is about $398 million; the aquaculture industry in British Columbia is about $500 million on an annual basis, sometimes a little higher due to price; and the recreational fishery is generally estimated to be about $700 million on an annual basis.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

There's a significantly higher value in the recreational fishery.

Ms. Reid, you spoke about fair and equitable distribution of the benefits. How does that play into the numbers we just heard as far as total catch allocations go? What goes to the recreational catch versus the commercial catch in biomass?

[Rebecca Reid]

The value of the recreational fishery is a reflection of the spinoff benefits from not just the harvest of the fish but also the guiding operations and the other operations that accompany it, so when you look at the recreational fishery value, you need to consider those aspects as well.

I don't know what else to add.

[Andrew Thomson]

The vast majority of fish landed by poundage is through the commercial fishery. A fairly small amount of fish in total weight is landed by the recreational fishery, if that's the question you're asking.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you. You mentioned also that there is basically an overcapacity in the fleet. Is that overcapacity there because of a reduced amount of catch available or is it because of increased efficiencies? How did we develop an overcapacity in the fleet?

[Rebecca Reid]

The overcapacity is something that has existed over the decades and it really is in response to interest in fish and DFO's efforts to limit licences. The response by the fishermen was to increase the fishing power. As DFO introduced what we call input controls, we limited licences, numbers or vessel lengths, then people built bigger faster stronger vessels and better nets to continue to enhance their fishing power, and so you had this race for fish essentially by building bigger and better equipment.

The result of it was the multiple attempts to reduce fishing power to support conservation and protection, and there was this counteraction in which people simply built better equipment. We ended up in this overcapacity situation, which has led to a number of the licence reforms we have put into place.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Has the overcapacity also contributed to the decline of the stock?

[Rebecca Reid]

Our paramount goal—our mandate—is conservation and protection of the fisheries. It is always a challenge, in any particular fishery, given the overcapacity of the fleet, to manage the fleet in such a way as to ensure that we keep conservation as the first priority.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

The question was, though, whether the overcapacity has been a factor in the depletion of the stock.

[Rebecca Reid]

I think you could find examples of certain fisheries having been overfished. There are examples out there—for example, very short herring roe fisheries in which you have too powerful a fleet going fishing with too many boats in one place—having resulted in management errors of that type. Overall, though, the management regime we have in place takes into account the capacity that's available, and we put in constraints to control it so that we can accomplish our primary mandate.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Can you give us your take on the differing management regimes from west coast to east coast Canada?

[Kevin G. Anderson, Senior Advisor, Indigenous Relations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Rebecca and Andy have described many elements of the Pacific fishery, and there are similarities in the Atlantic. For example, the greater-than-65-foot fleets that we traditionally call offshore and sometimes refer to as midshore are very much built on similar principles—corporations, quota base, ITQs—in some respects. The vast majority of the less-than-65-foot fleet in Atlantic Canada, however, has evolved in similar circumstances from open access in the 1950s, 1960s and much before to where, in the 1970s we began limitations on harvesting—limited entry, vessel size rules, and those many output and input controls that Rebecca described.

Today's less-than-65-foot fleet is based predominantly—there are exceptions—on the owner-operator principle, and harvesting controls are built around policies such as core. You may or may not be familiar with this. Since 1996, if you become a fisherman, the enterprise is based on residency requirements, in many respects. It's also based on fleet separation since 1979, on the idea that processors—much the focal point in 1979—would not have fishing enterprises, and on a list of other things.

You do see, however, similarities in such things as grandfathering provisions. Processors who held licences before 1979 still hold them today. They're a small number, but these provisions were in the Atlantic situation. It was recognized that in order to create a stable environment, you would add elements of both.

The owner-operator principle continues to evolve, as Rebecca referenced—technology, vessel size rules—but you still have enhanced technology on board. There are, then, many similarities, but with some unique responses around preserving communities. Not to be underestimated, of course, is that there are five provinces, which have an interest in provincial shares.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

We'll now go the New Democratic Party, to Mr. Donnelly for seven minutes or less, please.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our witnesses for being here and starting off this interesting study looking at licensing on the west coast.

I want to start on the Pacific. Thanks for the overview; it's helpful.

I want to ask for a brief overview of how we got to ITQs on the west coast. Some would categorize their introduction as a move to privatization or increased efficiency. I want just a short explanation of how we got there.

Secondly, what's the vision going forward now, given that we have, some would say, fewer fish and increased external problems, such as climate change, ocean conditions, habitat loss, pollution, and it being even harder to fish with an aging fleet?

In that vision, are there alternatives being considered, such as terminal fisheries; owner-operator fishing on the west coast more like that on the east coast; and what the Harrison Fisheries Authority is doing?

Those are my two questions—a brief history in just a minute or two, because I'm limited for time, and then your vision in a minute or two.

[Rebecca Reid]

Okay. Well, I'll start, and perhaps Andy and Kevin can help out.

It was in the mid-1970s that individual quotas began to be introduced as a way to manage capacity in a way that we've talked about already. You can see IQs being used in various fisheries as a way to control effort and as a way to, I think, manage the fishery effectively and in an orderly way.

As far as a fisheries policy perspective and where we're going are concerned, I think one of the key elements in British Columbia that is unique, and I tried to highlight it, is where we're going from a first nations' perspective. The vision of the future includes first nations' fisheries in a very tangible way, so with the use of the aboriginal fisheries strategy, with PICFI, we are transferring the fishery resource to some extent to those small coastal indigenous communities. PICFI has been renewed and it's ongoing. We've invested over $140 million now, and that will carry on. When we think about the future, we need to think about the impact of those indigenous communities that hold those licences at a community level versus the more individual approach that's taken elsewhere.

As far as the Harrison Fisheries Authority is concerned, I can't comment on that.

I don't know if there's anything you want to add, Andy.

[Andrew Thomson]

There are two quick points.

In terms of the PICFI program, part of it has been to move to economic opportunities for interior first nations, in particular, like the Harrison Fisheries Authority—that's actually what we call a demonstration fishery—in which we're looking at providing smaller opportunities for local first nations or others in the context of the larger fishery. We've had a number of trials as a result of the commercial salmon allocation framework being renewed and we consult on those on an annual basis. We have proposals in. We go through a process for it.

Going back to your question about the development of ITQs, I think there were two other factors that certainly drove it. One was safety in the competitive derby-style fisheries. Particularly in black cod, or sablefish as it's called now, there was a significant safety concern—herring also had it—where fishers were fishing for a long period of time in order to get the competitive advantage in sea states that they probably shouldn't have been out in. The other was that when you're in a groundfish registry, there are a multiple number of species being fished. Some of the bycatch is of course of lesser quantities and concern, and so you need a way to manage for that. That's been part of the development of the ITQ fishery as well.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I hope I have a little more time.

My colleague mentioned some of the young fishers on the west coast and on the east coast who have come to this committee. They're very concerned about the future. That's why I'm asking the question about the equitable distribution of quota that they don't feel they can have access to. They can't fish. These are young fishers who want to participate. They represent the future, I think, of the fishing industry. The communities certainly on the west coast were here speaking passionately about it, but they're not seeing how they can make a living in the future. What's the vision for including their voice and their effort in this picture? Would you say it's fairly represented in what you've just presented to this committee?

[Rebecca Reid]

I would offer a couple of comments.

One is the value of the licences is market-driven, so, as in other locations, it does create a barrier simply because of the cost. We do have a couple of examples where we have made the licences more accessible. For example, for the geoduck quota, which was a very expensive licence, there were only 55 licences. We divided the quota 10 times, so we had 550 blocks instead of just the larger number, making it somewhat more available. Overall, the licences are market-driven from that perspective.

I don't know what else to say.

[Andrew Thomson]

There are a few examples where the quota pricing has actually declined. It is somewhat a fishery-dependent question there. Obviously as a free, market-driven system, in those more profitable fisheries in which there was a higher return, those prices have gone up, and of course those are the fisheries that individuals have a higher interest of entering into.

[Rebecca Reid]

I guess the one thing I would add, Mr. Donnelly, is that I've heard from young fishermen and others that entry into the fishery is a huge investment. It requires a mortgage and a lot of upfront costs, but if they have the stability and the certainty for the future, it makes it a lot easier. As we have uncertainty around stock and the state of the resource, that adds a lot of risk to their financial decision, which causes uncertainty as well. If we can create a framework of stability and certainty, I think that will help the picture and help them as well.

[The Chair]

Thank you.

We will now go back to the Liberal side.

Mr. Fraser, you have seven minutes or less, please.

[Colin Fraser, West Nova, Lib.]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. I can just pick up on some of the exchange you had with Mr. Donnelly.

In British Columbia, is there a fisheries loans board that helps people with financing in order to get into any of the fisheries?

[Rebecca Reid]

I don't believe there is one any longer. There was something in the past, and The Native Fishing Association had some kind of a loan-type arrangement, but that's the only one I'm aware of.

[Colin Fraser]

Is there a challenge with getting loans from commercial lenders, based on the instability in some of the fisheries?

[Rebecca Reid]

Yes. I should also add that in one of the restructurings, which we refer to as the “Mifflin plan”, a portion of that was financial support for licence-holders, and that was in mid-1996 or so.

Certainly, the feedback that we hear is that because licences aren't true property, it becomes difficult for fishermen to get loans from banks, and so that causes uncertainty as well.