Evidence of meeting #130 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was licence.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
The question can come up, are you a square peg in a round hole here with the way things have developed?
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Okay. Thank you for that.
We've also noticed that a fisheries loan board, where fishers themselves could get financing or loan guarantees in order to go out and directly deal with the licence and quota owners, so in other words, basically cutting the processor out of it, could give you more independence as to who you sold to.
Would that break the current stream where you have the processor dealing with the quota owner, back and forth, and then the fisher is captive to the processor? Would it break that chain if there were an alternate source of money for you guys to go out and lease licences and quota?
Ross.
Fisher, As an Individual
If as a fish harvester you own the licence, you have a lot more freedom to sell to who you want to sell to for the highest market price you can get.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Has anybody done an analysis of the spread between what the fishers are paid when they unload the fish and what the processors get when they sell the finished product?
Fisher, As an Individual
That depends on how much share of the market the processor has, so say, Canadian fish and salmon is going to be significantly higher than for a processor that doesn't have that large control of the market, where they're not controlling the cost.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you, Mr. Hardie. You've gone over time.
Now we'll move to the Conservative side with Mr. Doherty, for five minutes or less.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thanks.
Again, I want to thank our guests. This is my first chance to talk to those of you who are before us right now. Thank you for attending today. I also want to say thank you for the conversation that we had the last time you were in Ottawa.
Again, as I mentioned before, not being a fisher or coming from that industry, I am coming to understand how our policy in Ottawa or the policies in Victoria impact you. There were some really heartfelt messages for us at that time, and I really appreciate your candour and the subsequent emails too. I understand it.
I want to go back to this foreign fishing or foreign ownership.
Fraser, you mentioned you had lunch with a foreign group that was going to buy a boat and buy a licence for you as well. We also know that off our coast there is a lot of illegal and unreported foreign interference or foreign fishing. Could these groups who haven't purchased a boat be the same entities that are right along our borders or in our waters and catching illegally but also legally?
Fisher, As an Individual
They could be, for sure. I think it depends on the operation. There are groups of boats in the foreign offshore fleets that specifically, as their job, try to—
Fisher, As an Individual
Yes. Whether those are the same people who are investing money here, I'm not sure, but it could be.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Yes, they're getting it one way or the other. They're either getting it through a partnership with you or they're going to be along there and doing it anyway.
Does anybody else have a comment on that?
Associate Professor, University of Guelph, As an Individual
I don't know, but it happens elsewhere in other countries. The study by the Swedish researchers that I referred to in my remarks found a small number of companies globally that control a large amount of catch. As Fraser was saying, there are discussions among researchers about vessels whose job it is to stay in international waters and sit on the line.
I hesitate to say yes, absolutely, but I think it's a reasonable question to ask.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
You brought up some interesting points and data that we weren't able to receive. DFO couldn't provide us with that information, surprise, surprise. If anybody paid attention to this committee previously, it always sticks in my craw that these guys are supposed to be the experts; they're supposed to manage their file, yet they don't have the information.
Does the study you're reporting name the companies?
Associate Professor, University of Guelph, As an Individual
I'm trying to decide what to do about that in the publications, to be very honest. I think we've heard the large company names thrown around here.
Associate Professor, University of Guelph, As an Individual
You heard from a Canfisco representative yesterday that they own a large number of licences.
Conservative
Associate Professor, University of Guelph, As an Individual
Yes, shame. I hear they replay it on the Internet so you can listen to it.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Let the record show that the witness has a sense of humour.
Associate Professor, University of Guelph, As an Individual
Hey, I'm an academic. That doesn't get said about us very often.
Fisher, As an Individual
I have some thoughts on that. Until about 2015, DFO had quite a well-laid-out page on the website where you could access this information. It was called the licence listing by fishery. There was a drop-down menu. This is what I used to lease licences. I looked at which bands had licences that would fit my boat and then I called and went there—
Fisher, As an Individual
It's gone. As of about 2016, there's now this extremely convoluted 4,000 page long Excel file that is very hard to get through and very hard to find as well.