Evidence of meeting #131 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishermen.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
The remaining time in this session goes to Mr. Morrissey for approximately three and a half minutes.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
One of the themes that has been coming to the forefront in these meetings is that it's been referred to as smart money, offshore money and controlling money. What recommendation could the committee make to deal with somebody else's money that's not the fishers' money?
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Okay. That goes to my second question.
I'm not sure, James, if it was you or Ryan who made the reference to your having “no voice”.
We also heard testimony that DFO does not consult with fishers. That was a direct quote from the fishermen the other day.
What recommendation could this committee make to give you a voice?
Fisher, As an Individual
Apart from the advisory board, which I don't think is very effective for the harvesters themselves, I would say give them their own board to have their own voice that is harvester specific. The current advisory boards, oftentimes, are just licence holders who are not actually in the trenches fishing, so to speak, so they're not as tapped into what's a going on on the grounds. A harvester-only advisory board, or something like that, would suit me just fine.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
On the east coast, in my province, there's one group that speaks for the fishing industry. It's controlled by commercial fishers. In New Brunswick, it would be the same, and I'm sure that Nova Scotia does that. These organizations very effectively interact with DFO, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, in ensuring that the majority of the opinion of commercial fishers finds its way into policy within the department.
Is that a model that would work on the west coast?
Fisher, As an Individual
At the present time it might get a little mixed up, because as far I know, everywhere on the east coast is owner-operator. We have that extra layer, where we have licence-holders who are not operators and they also want to be consulted.
In my perfect world, yes, I would love something such as that to come into effect for us.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
There was a comment made at one of the earlier meetings that one of the negatives affecting the west coast fishery is that we have chosen “to protect weak stocks”.
I didn't have the chance to fully pursue that at the last meeting.
Mr. Black Sr., would you care to comment?
Owner, Marlson Industries Ltd.
If you look at our neighbours to the north, such as Alaska—
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Excuse me for interrupting, but Alaska has been referred to several times as being a better model of management than we are.
Owner, Marlson Industries Ltd.
Yes. Having fished up in Alaska for five seasons, being involved in the commercial salmon fishery, I would say they don't manage to a weak stock. They manage to the stronger stocks, and then they put enhancement to the weaker stocks to bring them up. If you manage to the weaker stocks, you will have your stronger stocks as a weaker stock in the end. They've already gone through that.
As I said, I was very fortunate to actually meet the biologist when I was up there and fished. They actually are hands on. They come down and meet fishermen on the dock and they fly in the airplanes on every opening.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Fin Donnelly
We're going to have to leave it at that. Thank you very much, Mr. Morrissey.
Thank you to all our presenters: Mr. Lawson, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Black Sr., Mr. Black Jr. and Mr. Moore.
Mr. Hardie.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Very quickly, because you're in the chair and you don't get to say this, I'll say it on your behalf: If anybody has heard something they wish to react to, please feel free to send further information to the clerk.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Fin Donnelly
Mr. Hardie, that's an excellent addition. Thank you.
We'll suspend for two minutes before we move into the second half of the committee meeting.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Fin Donnelly
I call the meeting back to order.
I have a number of things to explain. One is that we anticipate that the bells are about to ring at about 4:45. That's going to interrupt this committee. I'll test the committee to see how far we want to stay into the ringing of the bells. Perhaps we could stay a little longer.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Fin Donnelly
They're 30-minute bells.
I'll see whether there's unanimous consent to perhaps go 15 minutes into that. Then we can at least hear all the presentations and there might be time for a short question from both parties.
Also, I welcome Monsieur Deltell, from the riding of Louis-Saint-Laurent. Thank you for joining us.
With that, we have three presenters: Carl Allen, who is a fisher; Michael Barron, a fisher; and Melanie Sonnenberg, president of the Canadian Independent Fish Harvester's Federation.
Each presenter has seven minutes.
Mr. Allen, we'll start from the top with you.
Carl Allen Fisher, As an Individual
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans for allowing me the opportunity to speak on this topic today. It's one that I consider to be critically important to the future viability of British Columbia fish harvesters.
I appear before you today as a fourth-generation independent fish harvester from eastern New Brunswick and the president of the Maritime Fishermen's Union, representing approximately 1,250 independent fish harvesters in eastern New Brunswick and various regions of Nova Scotia.
I cannot speak to the history of how the situation evolved in British Columbia to where it is today. I can only speak to my views of this situation and how it compares to how things look on the east coast. I can tell you that the differences are shocking and startling.
First of all, as a licence-holder in Atlantic Canada, as per the owner-operator policy I'm required to fish my licence, whereas in British Columbia, licence-holders can lease their licence or quota, never having to fish it or be required to be a harvester in the first place. This creates a situation in which deep-pocket investors can outbid new entrants when licences come up for sale and allows for unrealistic lease rates for quota and licences that make it impossible for people who actually harvest the fish to make a fair living and have the ability to reinvest in their enterprises.
The results of those differences are what the Government of Canada, no matter their political stripe, should be very concerned about. As worldwide demand for high-quality protein continues to rise and as wild catch rates have levelled off, the landed value of Canadian seafood, which I would argue is among the best in the world, continues to increase. You would think that this would mean that fishermen in this country are making more money, which is true on the east coast but not on the west coast. The results of this extremely inequitable distribution on the west coast of the wealth created by the ocean has a huge effect on the land-based economy that the spinoff from fisheries typically creates.
It is a well known fact on the east coast—Mr. Morrissey, you can attest to this—that we fishermen don't typically tuck our money away during the good times. We spend it, for lack of a more eloquent term. We fishermen typically reinvest large portions of our revenue into our enterprise. As a result of this, right now on the east coast we're in a boatbuilding boom, with many boatbuilders having at least a two-year wait if you want a new boat, while shipwrights struggle to keep up with the demand for repairs and refits on existing vessels.
Compare that to the west coast. There, as a result of the lack of sound policies to keep the net benefit of the resource in the hands of the people who actually harvest it, the boatbuilding industry has diminished to the point where, I've been told, fishermen are sourcing new boats from the U.S. and elsewhere. Again, this is the complete opposite of the east coast, where we are selling vessels into the U.S. at a constant rate.
It's not just about the boatbuilding industry benefiting from fishermen spending their money. There are a number of spinoff economies that are seeing the benefits of this wealth, ranging from carpenters and many other tradespeople doing work on fishermen's houses and garages, to car dealers, accountants, travel agents and community charities. The list goes on.
I recently had a member of my community approach me. He shook my hand and congratulated me on a good season. This is what he had to say to me: “When fishermen are doing well, the community does well. We all benefit from the riches of the oceans.”
When I compare that to what a young fisherman told me on a recent trip to British Columbia I was saddened and disgusted at the results of the DFO's B.C. region policies over the last 25 plus years. He said this to me: “We lost the ability to take care of our communities like we used to, and therefore our communities don't see the need to take care of us.”
That's absolutely disgusting in a country such as Canada. It is the duty of the government to manage the fisheries on behalf of the people of Canada.
To put this into a little bit of context, I'll use the B.C. halibut fishery context. In 2017, I was told, it was worth approximately $66 million in landed value. Of this, approximately only 20% went to the actual harvesters. To me, this begs the question. Where did the rest go, that approximately $52.8 million? I can't speak to exactly where the 80% went, but I can tell you where it didn't go. It didn't go into the hands of fishermen, and it didn't get spread throughout the fishing communities, as is happening on the east coast.
As to where the 80% does go, this is something the committee should be concerned about. If we allow anybody to own the title over our fisheries without ensuring that they are actually in the fisheries, then we may very well come to a day when outside people or corporations completely control and exploit the benefits, leaving nothing for Canada itself—except the cost of managing the fisheries in an ever-changing environment.
Governments of all political stripes like to talk about growing the middle class. Well, as a result of the owner-operator policy, Atlantic fishermen have been able to move into the middle class as the value of our top-quality seafood has continued to grow. I'm extremely saddened that our brothers and sisters on the west coast have not been afforded the same opportunity, and even more so that they are being forced to work in servitude, with little to no hope of escaping this situation—that is, unless the Government of Canada has the moral strength to take action and correct the situation before it gets any worse.
Once again, I thank you for the opportunity to testify here today.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Fin Donnelly
Thank you, Mr. Allen. You still had a minute left, so that was good timing.
Mr. Barron, you're up next, but I'll just let you know that you're probably going to get interrupted by the bells. When they ring, I'm going to have to ask for unanimous consent to continue. I apologize in advance for the probable interruption, but we will start the clock, and you have seven minutes for your presentation.
Michael Barron Fisher, As an Individual
Good afternoon. I'd like to thank all honourable members of the standing committee for the opportunity to be here today.
My name is Michael Barron. I'm a middle-class entrepreneur from Ingonish Beach, Nova Scotia. My business is operating an independent fishing enterprise. I am a young, independent owner-operator and the director of the Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association. I am also a member of the Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters' Federation.
The reason for my presence here today is to inform or educate you on the difference between the Atlantic and the Pacific coasts, primarily with regard to being the recipient of the benefits and privileges of working on our oceans and reaping the rewards from doing so. The reason my story is so imperative is that I control the efforts, I control the costs, which can be very high, and I control the return to my crew and the small, rural coastal community of Ingonish Beach, where I live and work. I raise the idea of my contribution to the rural community of Ingonish because the population of my town is approximately 1,100 people. I sell my fish to the Victoria Co-op. During peak season, we employ approximately 166 people in that plant. My income helps support the local groceries, the garages and the hardware stores, all mom-and-pop stores.
The benefits of my independent fishing enterprise are shared by the whole community, building both spirit and fellowship throughout. It is a great place to live with a sense of peace. It's a place where people know your name; when you drive down the road, they wave to you. When they see you, they stop to talk to you. Sadly, the picture is much different in British Columbia.
I've recently had a chance to meet others who work in the B.C. fisheries, doing similar work to what I work do on the east coast. Visiting the Minister of Fisheries in January and here in Ottawa on World Fisheries Day in November, I met the fishers from B.C. We fish the same species, halibut, but in B.C., they don't have any access to fish. They have the privilege to fish, but the access is held by others. These harvesters in B.C. don't enjoy the ability to maintain or invest in new equipment or vessels because the margin of the return on their catch is minimal. It's pennies on the dollars and this needs to be stopped.
The fabric of rural communities in B.C. is not at all like home. They no longer have a local fish processor. The canneries have moved to Alaska. The fees involved in fishing—wharfage, quota and licensing—reduce the margin for efforts to a ridiculous amount. The amount that pays crews also pays taxes and pays for safety, which is a significant concern. You can't improve your vessel if you can hardly pay your crew.
Let's take a very simplistic view of a business model in B.C. versus Atlantic Canada. Say, in Atlantic Canada, that $1,000 worth of fish is harvested. You pay your vessel expenses and maintenance—we call this a boat share—leaving approximately $500 to split between captain and crew, say $200 for the captain and $300 for crew. The licence holders, by possessing the licence, have the level of fish to harvest and receive the residual benefits for the efforts and the risk taken to do so.
In British Columbia, if you take the same $1,000 worth of harvested fish and you take off the fee you would have paid the owner of the quota, it leaves approximately $200. That means as much as 80% of the harvest is going to potential foreign interests. How do you keep a vessel in good repair? The wages paid to crew are disrespectful, and this represents sharecropping to an extreme. The effort is significant and the returns on the wages and well-being are minimal. Licence-holders must successfully bid on a level of fish held by other interests, nationally and internationally. That's just wrong.
As a side point, this owner of the quota may not even be Canadian. It's a real shame when we have to think about something like that. The residual benefits of the B.C. model go to an investor seeking to reap the return on investment based on reducing expenses such as salaries, wages, taxes and anything that takes away from the profit. Also, it's a burden on Canadians since there's no control on who owns the quota. This is a Canadian resource—a wild protein sought throughout the world, a resource that taxpayer dollars are spent on to manage it, and a resource that's kept sustainable and viable via the science and management of DFO policies and programs—but with no viability and no reinvestment in Canada.
Our dollars are going into a large entity with no appetite for the benevolence of Canada. I am here today to provide you with this little information as a witness and ask you, the honourable members of the standing committee, to assist the harvesters of British Columbia to fix the situation and force a formal review and investigation into the licensing policy ownership in the Pacific.
Basically, the idea is simple: follow the money.
Thank you.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Fin Donnelly
Thank you, Mr. Barron.
The bells didn't interrupt you, so you got through your entire presentation.
That means, Ms. Sonnenberg, that it's more than likely that you're going to get interrupted, but we will give you seven minutes nonetheless.