Evidence of meeting #131 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishermen.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you.
We'll go now to the Conservative side. Mr. Doherty, you have seven minutes or less, please.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks again to our guests.
We have said throughout this whole study and in the sidebar conversations that we've had as we walked together, right across the committee, that the testimony we're hearing from our guests is very powerful. It's much more valuable than that of the officials that we can get in here. Trust me.
Because seven minutes isn't always enough, I want to give more opportunity for those who are on the panel to share with us what you feel that policy should look like. As we move forward as a committee, how can we put forth good recommendations, so that we an act on this? Again, I really appreciate your taking the time to come out.
Mr. Lawson, what does that next policy look like? Then to you all, please take a moment to answer.
4:10 p.m.
Fisher, As an Individual
Do you mean like the end-game or the transition to get there?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
In a perfect world, what does that policy look like for you?
4:10 p.m.
Fisher, As an Individual
I guess it would be the five points I mentioned: owner-operator policies; effectively dealing with ITQ species, such as solely for choke species; owner-operator for target species; and every fisher having to join an organization that would have their interests in mind for collective bargaining and stuff, because right now we're so fractured that we have no voice.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Fisher, As an Individual
Yes. There are three different gillnet associations, two different seine ones and so on.
A loan board would be nice too, but not until the systemic problems are tidied up.
4:10 p.m.
Fisher, As an Individual
Mr. Lawson did a really nice job with that.
It's going to take a bit of time to switch to owner-operator. It's such a complex issue. At the very least, we need.... With our vessel, we pay 20% of the landed value—80% goes to somebody who has quota. There's absolutely no way for our boats...to maintain our vessels. My boat's 91 years old and I have to pay my crew or else I won't have crew. Things get sacrificed. We have to work too hard and things suffer. This is not the way we should be managing our resources going into the future.
To get on point, James is absolutely right: collective bargaining and 50% in the interim, because we have to give these guys some time to get de-invested.
4:10 p.m.
Owner, Marlson Industries Ltd.
There are a couple of different approaches. You might not like the way I would approach it, having grown up as a fisherman and having all the hard knocks. I'll share one quick story with you.
Running a boat in my early days, I had the misfortune of sleeping in. It was embarrassing because my relatives and other peers were already out catching and I was in plain sight. They could see me plain as day. Of course, the first thing that happens is you wake up and you panic. You get the anchor up as quick as you can and move out of the anchorage. Then you go and get in one of the lineups and take your turn. I never got that hour or two back, like they are offering now with the quotas and so on and so forth. This is what people don't understand, who are just asking these questions as we speak. That moment in time is gone. That memory for me...I smile and laugh about it now because, looking back, it was kind of funny but at the time I was more embarrassed, and I hid in the wheelhouse as I left the anchorage.
To answer the question, I know a little bit of thought needs to be put in it to be going forward. I personally feel, as a commercial fisherman and a native commercial fisherman, that I have nobody representing me properly. I've gone to many meetings, and I haven't been paid to go to the meetings. I've arrived and tried to say what I could say as quickly as I could. I've looked around the room and everybody who was in there was getting an honorarium. They were being paid to represent some place.
Getting back to what he's asking, I firmly believe, as a commercial fisherman and as a native commercial fisherman, that we need to be properly protected and represented going forward. I do have some good friends who I've talked to, and I'm not alone in this belief. If we want it to go ahead like he's asking and implement it, there are a couple of different avenues. It's not going to happen overnight, but it shouldn't happen in four years time. It needs to be done in the short term to turn it around, and there are ways of doing it. Right now it's very hard, as an owner-operator, to get financing from the lending institutions. They favour the corporations, the fish plants. I know that, first hand. We also have a 71-year-old vessel, and just trying to get insurance for it is not easy. Even in trying to keep in compliance with all the regulations that keep coming at us, we're still paying.
February 6th, 2019 / 4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Mr. Black, I'll take over for Mr. Doherty. He got called out on short notice.
You mentioned that you're the only one in the room who is not getting an honorarium at meetings. Who else is in the room that is getting an honorarium?
4:15 p.m.
Owner, Marlson Industries Ltd.
No. I'm not referring to this particular meeting. I'm referring to meetings—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
No. Not at this meeting, but at the meeting you were referring to when you go and you have no one representing you.
4:15 p.m.
Owner, Marlson Industries Ltd.
I went there as an independent commercial fisherman, which is what my son and I are and the rest of our family is. When we went in the room and everybody stood up and introduced themselves around the room, one was representing, say, a tribal council, one was representing small communities, and so on and so forth. They were all organizations. I sat at a table with some very nice people and they were actually who pointed it out. It got me thinking. There were almost 150 people in that room in Richmond and they were making decisions for us. It had something to do with the Fraser River at the time. I had been asked to go because I happen to live in North Vancouver, so I attended the meeting and it was pointed out by some people I met there what was really going on. After they pointed it out and we listened to everybody, they were right; so like I say, representation for commercial fishermen needs to be a priority.
4:15 p.m.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you, Mr. Black.
We'll go to the NDP now. Mr. Donnelly, you have seven minutes or less, please.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to all our witnesses for being here and providing your testimony. I think it's really important that we hear first-hand about what you're experiencing and look to the industry about how we go forward.
This study is looking at how the government licensing program is operating on the west coast. The committee has heard from independent fish harvesters about the benefits of the owner-operator principle and protecting fish harvesters in the current context of changing ocean and river conditions. Obviously, we have to change the way we fish because the current system and our model is just not sustainable.
Mr. Moore, when I heard your presentation, one of the things that impressed me was that you talked about River Select in the Harrison Fisheries Authority. Your presentation talked about your work, over 20-plus years, and what you've learned in those years. I'm wondering if you could talk more about the model that you've landed on and the promise that demonstration fishery might have as a way forward.
4:20 p.m.
Fisher, As an Individual
Thanks, Fin.
Since the modern river fisheries are new, we had to look at a different model, a model outside of the box, because the fisheries are cyclical. You may only get a harvest once every three or four years, so we were forced to find more value and to find ways to work more closely with the fishermen, who were formerly dependent on big fishery companies to give them loans and to help them with gear and boats, but in return, they became beholden to the big fishery companies. We created small producers' co-operatives, so the fishermen worked together. We worked with them to provide financing to help them buy gear, to become safe and to organize themselves, so if they fished together, they landed together. They value-added their products together and sold their fish together and as a co-operative, we found that we got more stability in the jobs. We've got more stable employment. We increased the numbers of jobs. We found that the value to the fishermen increased up to 11 times what the fishermen were getting formerly on the riverbanks.
As we built these small fishermen's co-operatives in these small experimental demonstration fisheries in the rivers, we also built a service co-operative at a B.C.-wide level. The B.C.-wide fisheries co-operative helps us to provide services, like the big fisheries companies would do, but it didn't necessarily tie the fishermen to having to sell their fish to the co-operative. The service co-operative is simply there to help the small fishermen's co-operative make more value. We found that fishermen were working longer. They were doing more than just fishing. They were doing landing jobs. They were monitoring, and even got involved in science programs, so we really brought the fishery in much closer to the community again. We gave the fishermen much more pride and control over their fishery and that whole concept of owner-operator really came home. It came true. It was not only tying the quotas to the fishermen, but tying the fishermen and the quotas back to the communities, closer to where they look after the salmon.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Could you answer two things? One is, you say “we”. Could you describe a little bit about who you are and whom you represent? Then, also, there's the issue about the buying of fish and how that happened. I'm going to ask a third one, as well. You talked about the difference that the app made, which was quite interesting.
The third thing is the reduction of bycatch mortality.
We have three minutes, so maybe spend a minute on each.
4:20 p.m.
Fisher, As an Individual
Sure, I'll start with the last one.
The bycatch mortality has dropped to nearly zero, so we were much better able to protect local fish stocks.
As for the app we used, we created an online bidding platform so that all of the fish companies and anybody who was licensed and wanted to buy fish were able to bid for the fish that were offered by each of the fisheries co-operatives. Each week we'd push the restart button, and the fishermen were getting two or three times—sometimes more—value than they ever got from the fish company. We were eliminating about four or five layers of brokers, so that was really important.
What were a couple of the other questions? Sorry.
4:20 p.m.
Fisher, As an Individual
I started doing best practices forums with first nations from around British Columbia that were developing these new river fisheries back in 2005. We did some 40 workshops with fishermen in communities and eventually incorporated the best practices forum into the Inland Salmon Producers Association. We created a charter for responsible trade among the first nations so that the principles we heard a lot about today from fishermen were embraced.
Then we created a fishers co-operative, and I'm the executive director and business manager for the River Select Fisheries Co-operative. That's the service co-operative that helps the small producers get into the value chain and get more value out of their fish.
We still work with the fish companies, but it's transcended the relationship. Now these co-operatives work with the fish processors to add value to their catch, and all of these local fish producers are able to brand their fish right back to the fishery where they came from. Traceability becomes more about local conservation, the story of the fishery, and stewardship of the fishery as well as looking after the fishermen.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
We have just about 30 seconds left.
One of the things I was impressed by is that we have a problem in the current fishery with bycatch impacting steelhead, runs of salmon, chinook, types of coho and even sockeye and sturgeon. In your fishery, you've said that this is almost down to zero, or is zero.
4:25 p.m.
Fisher, As an Individual
[Inaudible--Editor] to zero. Using beach seines, timing, location and gear are all factors that you can use to be selective. The idea of being selective is that we can keep orca safe, we can let the sturgeon go, we can let the steelhead go and we can let the chinook salmon go. We can be very delicate with those fish that we don't want to harm, and we can harvest the most productive stocks.