Fisheries Committee on March 18th, 2019

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Well, I would hope, Mr. Chairman, that we could have that individual, that former prosecutor, testify. We've just started the testimony on this bill here, so that's—

[The Chair]

Your time is up.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

—one of the suggestions I'd like to make, because I don't think we're in any hurry to—

This is it? We only have one day?

[The Chair]

Mr. Johns is next, for five minutes or less, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

I'll start with Mr. Burns and I'll follow a little bit where Mr. Nicholson was going in terms of the belugas you have.

With your indiscriminate breeding program and your limited space—you've identified that you have 50 or so belugas—how do you prevent inbreeding, and how do you ensure that births don't outstrip your capacity to house these whales responsibly?

[Andrew Burns]

Well, first of all there isn't indiscriminate breeding. Secondly, there is a well-developed veterinary program. There are three veterinarians who review the condition, health and care of the animals every single day. There are a dozen veterinary specialists who are available to provide individual advice. Collectively, they monitor breeding issues and ensure that those issues don't arise.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

[Inaudible--Editor] ...capacity, what do you—?

[Andrew Burns]

Regarding capacity, Marineland has the largest pools housing whales in the world; we are aware of capacity issues. Those scientists, those veterinarians, advise the animal care committee, and their advice regarding whether or not they have appropriate space is adhered to strictly by Marineland.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I think we heard about appropriate space from another witness earlier.

You're no longer accredited by the Canadian association of zoos and aquariums. Is that true?

[Andrew Burns]

The reason for that is that Marineland was undergoing an expansion. As a consequence, we have to do a re-accreditation following completion of the work. I can advise the committee that we have CAZA coming within the next month to do a pre-inspection, and we will then be going through the full inspection—as is normal—this spring.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

In the Senate, the late Mr. Holer told the committee that Marineland would like to import more dolphins, presumably wild-caught. Is this still an objective?

[Andrew Burns]

Sadly Mr. Holer, who is the founder of Marineland, has passed away. Consequently, Marineland is under new management, and all those issues are under appropriate consideration.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Wright, we've heard that Marineland is not an accredited institution; they're working on that.

Do you support their import of wild-caught cetaceans and their breeding for trade and profit?

[Clinton Wright]

The Vancouver Aquarium is very clear that we do not support wild capture, and that was very specific in 1996 for Vancouver. We are very specific about not collecting animals from the wild. In fact, there have been no animals taken from the wild in Canada since 1990.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay.

So you voluntarily ended taking any new cetaceans into captivity.

[Clinton Wright]

Correct.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

The aquarium has only one dolphin remaining. Can you tell us what happened with the last several cetaceans that the aquarium had in its care?

[Clinton Wright]

Yes.

Unfortunately, we lost the last two belugas that we had. Actually, Dr. Haulena would probably be a better person to talk to if you want more detail, but they basically died of a toxic event. We've been unable to describe what happened there and determine the exact root or cause of that toxic event.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'll go back to Mr. Burns.

In Marineland, many wild-caught belugas and dolphins, I believe, were from Russia, and there was an orca from Ireland.

How are they captured and does that cause trauma to their family groups? You talked about family groups and the significant impact it has when you separate families. As well, how are they transported and how is that price negotiated?

[Andrew Burns]

A number of the Russian whales came from a program of the Russian military where beluga whales were trained to place limpet mines under ships. When the Soviet Union collapsed, those whales were going to be turned into dog food. Instead, they were eventually transported to Canada and to Marineland. Their only hope for survival was in fact to go to Marineland.

With respect to the transport of whales, this is conducted under the care and oversight of highly qualified veterinarians who participated in the past under very careful conditions.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

You sell whales. Is that correct?

[Andrew Burns]

We don't sell whales. Whales have been requested from other institutions on occasion. In some circumstances other cetaceans have been brought in exchange. Otherwise, there have been funds provided to Marineland. All of those funds are then spent on the beluga whale program. None of that money—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Do you believe if a baby whale is separated from the others that there's trauma?

[The Chair]

Mr. Johns, your time is up. I'm sorry.

That concludes this portion.

I apologize to the witnesses for having to cut it short. There's a vote in about 12 or 13 minutes.

I don't know if it's the wish of the committee to reconvene after the vote for more questioning.

[Blaine Calkins]

Mr. Chair, if I may, perhaps members of the committee could be allowed to submit their questions in writing to any of the witnesses who appeared before us today and have those answers back.

Would our witnesses agree to that?