Evidence of meeting #140 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobsters.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you.
My question is possibly for you, Ms. Giffin. Expert testimony has been given earlier in today's meeting, primarily from Mr. Le Bris, about protecting larger females. They're five times more productive than smaller ones. As a biologist, do you agree with that?
Marine Biologist and Program Planner, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
As a biologist, I agree with the protection of larger females, and we have protections in P.E.I. to protect larger females with our windows. We have a mechanism in place there to protect those larger females.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Does anybody else want to respond as well?
You would also acknowledge, then, that to grow the resource, one of the key areas is to leave more large females in the water?
Marine Biologist and Program Planner, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Based on the science and the numbers, what we've been told in terms of that window-size lobster and having a maximum size and anything over that is that it doesn't seem to make a significant difference. In terms of actual numbers, if we look at 2017, say, at 25 trips, we returned 48 females within that window size back to the water. If we were looking at the maximum size, there would have only been six more lobsters in those 25 trips that would have been returned to the water. It's a difference of six lobsters over 25 trips, so—
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You would go on record as saying there's no value in leaving those in the water for the growth of the industry, as a biologist?
Marine Biologist and Program Planner, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I wouldn't say that there's no value. I think the question comes down to the significance of the value.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Okay. Thanks.
My other question, which again goes to Ms. Giffin, is on the movement of lobster. Again, there was expert testimony given to this committee a number of times that there's little movement of lobster in general. Does the PEIFA have any documentation to contradict this or to verify it?
Often, in discussion within the different LFAs, the fishermen will say that the lobsters they throw over are swimming to some other district. For instance, in the southern part, between Cape Breton and Prince Edward Island, you look at LFAs 26B and 24. LFA 26B would have a significantly large carapace size and LFA 26A would not.
Do you have any scientific data that would contradict what earlier testimony gave us?
Marine Biologist and Program Planner, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
No, none at all. The scientific data that we follow are the publications that we've seen through DFO, for the most part. In discussions with Amélie Rondeau at DFO in Moncton, she'll talk about the normal travelling distance of a lobster being approximately 10 to 20 kilometres. The distance may be a little bit more within the gulf region because it's flatter, but we're talking about imaginary lines, and it's not a situation where they normally travel a long distance over 10 kilometres.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Would you concur that basically lobsters stay within their general area and movements and carapace size really would have little impact on the resource in one area over another?
Marine Biologist and Program Planner, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Yes.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Okay.
There was an issue that nobody addressed. I would ask, if you do not have it here, if you could produce to the committee. Would a continued rise in carapace size have any negative impact on the marketplace?
Mr. O'Neill, you did not address that in your opening comments; nobody did. Does the PEIFA have any documentation or evidence that would show what impact a continued rise in carapace size would have on the marketplace, negative or positive?
Could one of you speak to that?
Bobby Jenkins President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
At this time, we don't have the data.
Interim Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I'm not aware of any information that would answer that question one way or the other, either positively or negatively. Managing the resource has been the main concern of the PEIFA. It's been a big commitment in recent years with encouraging the adoption of the larger carapace sizes, and so far there's been no discernible impact on the market that wouldn't be explained, I think, by general economic forces in the world.
That's as far as I can go about that.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I'll ask Mr. Fitzpatrick to answer this, and then probably Mr. Jenkins as the president. Again, you heard expert testimony given earlier that the current lobster landings are not the norm in Atlantic Canada. Would you agree? Obviously, the data shows that. What should this committee emphasize or concern itself with going forward to ensure that what is not the norm becomes the norm?
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
For Newfoundland, in my opinion, we're benefiting, as one of the gentlemen said earlier, from this shift or this perceived northern migration. Our landings have increased year over year in most areas. I don't know if it's due to climate change or if it's food distribution or water temperature or just a natural thing that's going to happen anyway. I wouldn't know how you would ensure it.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Mr. Jenkins, what key recommendation would you give to this committee to ensure that what is not the norm becomes the norm?
President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Obviously, we don't want to slip back into where I was in the 1970s, when I started fishing. That being said, in the 1990s, when we were doing phenomenally well, it slipped again, and we're back up there again. I think we have to continue to monitor what we're doing now. One thing that's really big is the food source. I think temperature and food are the main drivers behind this animal that we fish.
Keep going, I would say, with the conservation efforts we have in place, keep adjusting accordingly, and watch out for any telltale signs that things are going wrong. I did the precautionary approach a few years back in Moncton. They told us then that the central straits were done. In central Northumberland Strait, the landings were really, really bad, and we've seen that place take off for the last three years. It's probably one of the better-producing places in the strait.
I don't have all the answers, Mr. Morrissey, but we have to monitor this thing. We have to monitor on a yearly basis, stick with our conservation plans and listen to the fishermen.
NDP
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you.
I'd like to follow up on the last question I asked, which dealt with the maturity rate in warm water. Could an adjustment of the carapace size and the capture size address the concerns, if the lobster maturity factor is indeed a question? If they're maturing faster in warmer water, could we simply make them a little bit bigger before they're allowed to be harvested? Would that solve the fecundity issue going forward?
Mr. Le Bris.
Research Scientist, Centre for Fisheries Ecosystems, Fisheries and Marine Institute of Memorial University of Newfoundland
I think that's a good suggestion.
There is lobster management. There is different management. One of the main measures is on what the minimum size should be. I think it's a very powerful tool. I think the larger the gap in size between when lobsters start reproducing and when they get caught in the fishery is going to give you quite a bit of resilience in your fisheries. The bigger the gap between the minimum size and the size at maturity, the better for the industry in terms of population productivity.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you very much.
I'm going to ask this of some of the fishermen at the table. Is there any talk in the community about the exposure that the market to China currently has on the products that are harvested on the east coast of Canada?
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
Do you mean economically?
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Right now in western Canada we have about 40% exposure of our canola marketplace to China, which appears to be a political issue. I'm wondering if anybody has shown any concern or if anybody has heard anything about that becoming an issue for other sectors of the Canadian economy.
Independent Owner-Operator Fish Harvester, As an Individual
We're scheduled to start fishing on the 20th of this month.
There is a fear out there that the day before we start, or within that initial period, we're going to get the same kind of news that the canola farmers got. And if we were to run into that, it would be detrimental.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
What is the trade exposure to China? Do you know? How much of the product that you harvest ends up in the Chinese marketplace?
