Evidence of meeting #147 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was s-238.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
We're here to talk about shark finning, Mr. Chair, and he's talking about looking into chinook salmon.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
On a point of order, Mr. Fraser has asked for a ruling, so I think, Chair, that you need to give a ruling.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'll allow the motion to stand. We'll vote on it, unless there's further discussion.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Before we vote on the substance of the motion, I will say that we have an awful lot on our plate between now and when this session ends in a couple of weeks' time. The motion is asking for travel. It would be extremely difficult for staff of the committee to arrange that travel and for all of us to put aside everything else that this committee has already endeavoured to undertake between now and the end of the session. I don't think it is realistic at all for that to happen in the time frame we have.
I note as well that other travel, when there was a lot of time—not that long ago, a few months ago—was not something that the committee decided to do. For those reasons, I'm not going to support the motion. I think it's totally unrealistic.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you for that, Mr. Fraser.
Is there any other discussion?
(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)
The motion is defeated.
Go ahead, Mr. Calkins.
Conservative
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Mr. Rogers, you were on the list. Are you still going to ask questions, or did you get it done?
You're saying you're done.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I need to clarify this.
You can go online and see these products available from Malaysia and other places. Basically, it's canned shark-fin soup, and we have no way of knowing whether those fins were obtained using what we would consider to be ethical means.
Under those conditions, would we allow that product into Canada? If you don't have a really clear answer and if you don't know for sure, it would be very useful if you can get back to us.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We will provide that information to the committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Hardie.
Now, for three minutes or less, we have Mr. Donnelly.
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to follow up on the conversation about jurisdiction and the legislation. It's my understanding that import and export is federal jurisdiction, but sale and use is provincial and territorial.
For instance, enforcement related to the sale and use of shark-fin soup would generally be the domain of the provinces and territories, but entry of these products into the country would be the domain of the federal government.
I just want to clarify if that's the case.
Second, we've been talking about two types of legislation under the Fisheries Act and WAPPRIITA. The Fisheries Act is not using WAPPRIITA; it is using specifically Bill C-68, but under Bill S-238, it includes WAPPRIITA.
Mr. Fraser was talking about an issue that was related to investigation that I think, Mr. Gillis, you replied about.
Under WAPPRIITA, the government would have the power to investigate if a product had shark fin in it and was being, let's say, served in an establishment in a province. Under the Fisheries Act, is there the same power, or not? Would a CBSA official or a CFIA official or a department official have the ability to do that similar investigation under the Fisheries Act?
Take your time, although I only have three minutes.
Liberal
Manager, International Biodiversity, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment
I'm discussing the authorities under the different acts with my colleague, because I'm not aware of.... You're asking about the relationship between the enforcement authorities for the Fisheries Act and for the WAPPRIITA, and I'm only aware of the authorities for the WAPPRIITA.
Under the WAPPRIITA, the wildlife enforcement officers in Environment and Climate Change Canada have the authority to investigate claims of non-compliance. In order to have imported—should the bill pass—products and therefore undertake something like the sale of shark-fin soup, you would have had to have met the requirements of the act. Within WAPPRIITA, the enforcement officers can do those types of inspections.
For example, on the CITES element of the WAPPRIITA, to import certain products you need permits. Enforcement officers can investigate and can ensure that those permits are in place if something is on sale that is a regulated species. What I was coordinating with my colleague is how that relates in the Fisheries Act.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I just want to come back to the intent of the policy.
The intent of the policy is to deter shark finning. It's not a ban against shark fins. There still may be situations in which fins are harvested responsibly and under the licensing policy of domestic licensing. This legislation will not prohibit the sale of shark-fin soup in Canada. It still may be served. Again, it's a ban against the import and exportation. When it comes to sale, it will be very difficult for any enforcement officer to prove that the soup was produced from fin that was illegally imported.
