Evidence of meeting #147 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was s-238.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Gillis  Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Doug Forsyth  Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Carolina Caceres  Manager, International Biodiversity, Canadian Wildlife Service, Department of the Environment

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

I call the meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Pursuant to the standing order reference of Wednesday, May 1, 2019, we are considering Bill S-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins).

We have a number of witnesses with us here today. From the Department of the Environment, we have Carolina Caceres, who is the manager of international biodiversity in the Canadian Wildlife Service.

From the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, we have Paul Gillis, director general for strategic policy.

From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Doug Forsyth, director general of market access, and Helen Fytche, director of procurement, trade and environment.

Welcome to all of you, and thank you for taking the time to be here today.

I want to welcome back Mr. Donnelly , who is subbing in for his friend Mr. Johns.

I'd also like to welcome Senator MacDonald, who sponsored this bill in the Senate and is here today for the proceedings.

We'll start with the presentations from our witnesses. I believe, Mr. Gillis, you are going to use the time allocated.

3:30 p.m.

Paul Gillis Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Yes, I will, for just a few minutes.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

All right.

When you're ready, you'll have seven minutes or less.

3:30 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

Good afternoon.

I'd like to thank the committee for its invitation to speak to Bill S-238, an act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act with reference to importation and exportation of shark fins. As originally introduced by Senator MacDonald, the bill's original sponsor in the Senate, Bill S-238 proposed to prohibit shark finning in Canada and ban the importation of shark fins and their derivatives into Canada. As you know, it was subsequently modified by the Senate to also ban the export of shark fins from Canada. The bill also provides for exceptions by ministerial permit if the importation is for scientific research and benefits the survival of the species.

Before I address the substance of Bill S-238, I would like to review the context in which the bill has been introduced.

The practice of shark finning refers to the removal of fins from sharks at sea, often while the shark is still alive, and discarding the remaining carcass. It is widely recognized that shark finning and the impact of the trade in shark fins has had a devastating impact on the global shark population. Driven by high prices of whole fins, sharks represent a commercially profitable catch. Outside of Canada, the shark trade is not well controlled and is often the result of illegal, unregulated and unreported fishing.

According to the International Union for Conservation of Nature, 25% of the world's shark and ray species are threatened by extinction. In fact, it's estimated that more than 63 million sharks are killed each year, and scientists estimate that they're being killed 30% faster than they can replace themselves. The most recent statistics from the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations on trade in shark products conservatively put the average declared value of the total world shark-fin trade at $273.3 million U.S. per year from 2011 to 2015.

Canada represents a very small share of the global market in shark fins. In 2018, Canada imported $3.24 million Canadian worth of shark fins, mainly from Hong Kong and China, which represents around 1.9% of the reported global shark-fin imports of $173.9 million. Canadian shark-fin imports have declined by over 50% since 2005, when the value of imports was $6.4 million Canadian. Currently, Canada does not export any shark fins.

I would also like to note at this time the amendments introduced by Senator Harder to Bill C-68, which were approved by the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans on May 14, 2019. Senator Harder's amendments have incorporated the policy intent of Bill S-238 within the Fisheries Act; however, instead of banning the import and export of shark fins with the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act, WAPPRIITA, it is proposed to enact these provisions through the Fisheries Act.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada is committed to the conservation and sustainable management of shark stocks and strongly opposes shark finning. It is worth noting that since 1994, Fisheries and Oceans Canada has effectively banned the practice of shark finning by Canadian vessels through fish licence conditions.

Canada does not have a directed commercial fishery for pelagic sharks, and the harvest of pelagic sharks in Canadian fisheries waters is primarily as incidental catch, or bycatch.

Since 2018, the licence conditions have been tightened, and the fleets that have been permitted to retain incidental catch are now required to maintain the fins attached to the carcass until after the shark is offloaded from the vessel. This is an internationally recognized best practice, and key trade partners such as the United States and the European Union have changed their domestic management measures to move to a fins-attached landing requirement.

To strengthen and further support these efforts, Bill S-238 proposes amendments to the Fisheries Act that would explicitly prohibit shark finning in Canada.

That concludes my opening remarks. I thank you once again for the invitation to speak today. My colleagues and I are happy to answer any questions you may have.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Mr. Gillis.

We'll now go to the government side and to Mr. Hardie for seven minutes or less, please.

May 27th, 2019 / 3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Explain if you can, then, the difference between Bill S-238 and how it appears in Bill C-68, or how it's covered by Bill C-68.

3:35 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

The amendments introduced by Senator Harder during the committee stage at the Senate transferred the content of Bill S-238 directly into Bill C-68. Proposed subsections 32(1) and 32(2) for the Fisheries Act were transferred from Bill S-238 into Bill C-68, as well as proposed subsection 6(1.1), proposed paragraph 10(1.1)(a) and proposed paragraph 10(1.1)(b) for the WAPPRIITA, with the exception of the derivatives element of the bill. The policy content of Bill S-238 was transferred into Bill C-68, with the exception of the word “derivatives”.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

There was obviously some intention of having.... It says here, “regulation of international and interprovincial trade”. Is any influence on the international trade in shark fins preserved in Bill C-68?

3:35 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

Could you repeat that last part of the question?

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Well, the headline is “An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade”, and then importation and exportation of shark fins. That is Bill S-238. I'm wondering if Bill C-68 actually has any influence at all on the international and interprovincial trade in this product.

3:35 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

The importation and exportation prohibitions in Bill S-238 were transferred into Bill C-68, so yes, that policy intent of prohibiting the import or export of whole shark fins or parts of shark fins was transferred into Bill C-68.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Do we have other examples in the Fisheries Act of that same sort of provision, a provision that affects international and interprovincial trade, or is this new territory for Fisheries and Oceans?

3:35 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

No, it's not. There are sections of the Fisheries Act that ban the importation of certain fish products. That's primarily related to the prevention of aquatic invasive species. There are also prohibitions within the Fisheries Act on the exportation of fish for the production of feed or fertilizer, or processing of fish for those types of uses.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

The rules, as they exist now in Canada, are that you have to land the whole shark.

3:35 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

That's correct. In Canada, a fisherman who catches a shark through bycatch is required to land the entire shark before the fish is processed.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Do we currently import whole sharks at all?

3:35 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

Not that I am aware of.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Okay.

What happens to the rest of the shark, if we land a whole shark? There's obviously a market for the fins. I know some people make soup from them. Is that the only use for them?

3:40 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

There are markets for shark products, domestically and internationally. If a shark is landed in Canada, the fins could be used in domestic markets. The meats could be exported. There are markets, primarily in Europe, where we ship the meats, and those could still be exported. It's the fin itself that is prohibited from importation and exportation.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

It's the fin by itself, not attached to a shark.

3:40 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

It's the fin, and any parts of the fin.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

If all of a sudden we start to see whole sharks—and obviously we have, if they've been brought in as part of a bycatch—and if this industry takes off, although it sounds like it's a very niche market at the best of times, will our processors be in any position to make any commercial use of the carcass, or are we simply encouraging shark finning, except that instead of disposing of the body at sea, the animal is brought in?

3:40 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

This legislation would not impact the market opportunities of Canadian fishermen for shark products. Once this measure is implemented, it would not have an impact on the markets they are currently pursuing. They are still allowed to—

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

That question was kind of inside out to the answer you were giving. Is there enough of a market? Will the processors be interested in processing a shark carcass? Does it take anything special, or is it something they can put into their process with very little, if any, adjustment?

3:40 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Paul Gillis

I would argue that the legislation would not have any impact on their markets.