Evidence of meeting #18 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President, Production and Corporate Development, Canadian Fishing Company
Yes, and they do have access. Our fishing fleet that we own, both 100% and in joint venture ownership, is probably 80% skippered and crewed by first nations people who live up and down the coast in communities such as Campbell River, Alert Bay, and Bella Bella. That's where the fishermen who are on our boats come from. That's where they live. They take their income back to those communities, so we think there's a tremendous amount of equity already in the fleet.
The problem—as I said—is that the volume and the value of the catch, because of conservative management and because of the advent of farmed salmon worldwide, which is depressing prices for all salmon, have meant that there's not as much income to support as many people.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Mr. Nobels or Mr. McIsaac, in the remaining two minutes that I have, could you talk about the equity issue and what you think the federal government should do to address this issue, especially for the families of Haida Gwaii or Prince Rupert, for instance?
4:45 p.m.
Executive Director, T. Buck Suzuki Environmental Foundation
Okay. The equity issue is about sharing the benefits from the fishery with fishermen, communities, and the general population of Canada. The main beneficiaries of that should be the folks who have their hands in the water.
What's happening with licences across the spectrum is that they're being separated from fishermen. The example of the halibut lease was given earlier and having to pay $7 in terms of the lease. That is happening across all of the groundfish fisheries for those fishermen who don't own licences and quota. Making that connection to fishermen for that access to the resource is essential. That owner-operator component is essential to the resource and to equity going down to and making that connection with the community. That's also essential.
Bruce was talking about the trawl fishery, the processing that's still happening in British Columbia, and the landing in British Columbia. Part of that is associated with a component that was set up when quota was established, and that's the Groundfish Development Authority in British Columbia. It's the one bright light on this equity issue—if there is any bright light—and on making sure there is a connection to community on this coast.
Those are key things. With regard to the issue of corporate concentration, a study that came out this spring clearly shows that corporate concentration went up from 1993 to 2013. That concentration looks only at the ownership. If you look at the ownership and control, we're certain you'll see that an even bigger gap is being created there, creating a larger inequity. We have to move away from that corporate concentration and move to fleet separation, which keeps the processors out of the production and allows a larger free market for access to that fish, so that there's not that kind of monopoly control.
Rob identifies buying only 35% of the salmon. That's still a huge amount. It's having a huge impact. Being able to compete with all of the small processors that are on this coast...if that's their focus now, then they're in huge trouble, and we're going the wrong way.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Mr. McIsaac.
We're going to Ms. Jordan, please, from the government side, for seven minutes.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to everyone for appearing and for calling in. I appreciate this. As someone who grew up in a fishing community on the east coast, I find all of this very interesting.
My first question is for you, Mr. Turris. You talked about the history of the industry and how, in 1995, because of the total allowable catches being exceeded, the fishery closed. How long was it closed?
4:50 p.m.
Executive Manager, Canadian Groundfish Research and Conservation Society
It was four and a half months.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
In that time, was science done on the biomass? Was there a decline in all of the stocks that were in the area? I'm curious as to the rebounding.
4:50 p.m.
Executive Manager, Canadian Groundfish Research and Conservation Society
No. During that time, a structure was put in place for the comprehensive monitoring of the fishery when it reopened.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you.
To that end, I'm going to you, Mr. Allain, with my question. You said that in 2014 the east coast landed 2.4 billion...was it pounds?
4:50 p.m.
Executive Secretary, Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters Federation
That was dollars.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
It was dollars. Okay. That's what I wanted to be sure of. On the B.C. coast, it was $390 million. You're attributing that to fleet separation and owner-operator, and I'm just wondering.... My understanding is that we have a much larger fishery.
4:50 p.m.
Executive Secretary, Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters Federation
That's right.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I'm questioning, I guess, as to how you break that down. How do you see that? I was under the impression from your comments that if you had a fleet separation the same as they do on the east coast, you would have a much larger landed catch.
4:50 p.m.
Executive Secretary, Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters Federation
Oh no. Absolutely not.
4:50 p.m.
Executive Secretary, Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters Federation
I was just using those numbers to illustrate the magnitude of the Atlantic fishery. It's six times larger.
My point, though, was that of the $2.4 billion, $1.8 billion is generated by the owner-operator fleets. It's mainly crab and lobster, and about 50% of the shrimp. Of all the crab and the lobster, 80% of that is exported. It's been an amazing success story in the last four years.
Those of you who have been around will know that in 2008-09 there was a crisis in the lobster fishery, but lobster production has doubled in the last 10 years. We've gone from 45,000 metric tons to 94,000 last year. In 2008 we were pumping all of that into the American market. Eighty per cent of it was going to the American market. Then the economy went into the toilet and so did our lobster fishery.
What happened? Processors, with support from provincial governments and the federal government, started marketing. They opened up the Asian markets. Our fishery has rebounded. Now, we can sell all the lobster we can catch, and we're getting excellent prices, so the system works. We have fleet separation. Fishermen are catching and processors are processing, and they're doing their work in terms of the marketing. The system works.
My point was about the amount, the share, that comes back to owner-operators. It's 100% of what they catch and what they get at dockside. The leasing is not allowed.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you for clarifying that, because I was under the impression from your comments that the difference in the amount sold was because of the.... I would have questioned that.
4:50 p.m.
Executive Secretary, Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters Federation
No, no. Thank you.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
In terms of my next question, then, that actually was a good segue to Ms. Burridge.
You talked about the chum salmon fillets in Japan versus the ones in B.C. and said that it's more expensive to buy B.C. chum fillets. How much of that is because of the labour cost? When Mr. Sopuck asked, you said that it was the cost of the fish. Do you think the labour cost plays into that as well?
4:50 p.m.
Executive Director, BC Seafood Alliance
The labour cost certainly plays into it. Hokkaido chum is processed in China, as I said. We pay high prices to fishermen here, and that is primarily to independent fishermen.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
To independent fishermen. Okay. Thank you.
My next questions are for Mr. Morley. We heard testimony this week that 40% of all licences for salmon were held by Canfisco, and you're saying it was 4%. Is that correct?
4:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Production and Corporate Development, Canadian Fishing Company
That's correct.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Can you tell me where that discrepancy...? That's not a couple of percentage points. That's a huge discrepancy. How come people feel that you own 40% of the licences?
4:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Production and Corporate Development, Canadian Fishing Company
Well, because it suits their story.
I'm giving you the facts. I know what the numbers are. Clearly, we own a higher proportion of the licences in the seine sector of the industry, but we own none of the troll licences and a few of the gillnet licences. There are three gillnet licences, so overall it's 4%. In the seine part, it is more, but it's still not 40% even in the seine sector.
Why do they make those claims? Because it suits their story to make the political argument they want to make about fleet separation and owner-operator.