Fisheries Committee on June 9th, 2016

[Jim McIsaac]

All right. I understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Go ahead, Mr. McIsaac. The floor is yours for your opening remarks.

[Jim McIsaac]

Thank you.

I'd like to thank the standing committee for starting to look at these serious issues. They are important to fishermen, coastal communities, first nations, shoreworkers, processors, and other fisheries workers along our coast. We need to make sure that they're all involved and have a voice in this inquiry.

Fisheries are arguably the most sustainable food source on this planet. We don't have to water or feed them, weed or till the soil, or add fertilizers or pesticides. We just have to harvest them sustainably. Fisheries are important to our food security, our families, and our communities, and to future generations.

In short order, there are two main points I want to get across here. One is a profile of the fishermen on our coast, and the second is a profile of the communities on our coast.

Last year, an expert witness giving testimony at the Ahousaht trial, the justification trial, identified three essential components for a fishing business: a vessel, a fisherman, and legal access to the resource. Those three are essential components to any kind of fisheries business. On our coast, what the department has done is separate that last one, that legal access to fisheries, from the fisherman and the vessel.

That paper goes on to argue that the other two are useless without that legal access, but it's hard to see, though, with that legal access to a fishery, how you would catch fish without having a fisherman or gear. Anyway, it raises a critical question: should fishing licences be held by parties other than those who fish? That's the point.

A study on the issue of corporate concentration that was put out this January by Haas et al. shows the trend in the last 25 years in British Columbia moving from a more equitable state in fisheries to a less equitable state in fisheries. It shows the corporate concentration in British Columbia fisheries going up, specifically in salmon and herring, and the distribution of benefits going down. There are studies that show conclusively that corporate concentration is going up.

There's a slide I wanted to show. It's about halibut and what has gone on with halibut over the last 25 years in moving from an open fishery to an ITQ fishery, and an ITQ fishery where the quota and licence are separated from the fisherman and fishery. Those fishermen who don't have a quota are fishing for up to 80% less of the landed value on the fishery.

Without the graphic, it's very hard to describe that, but basically, on a block of halibut worth $400,000, of that, $300,000 is going to lease fees that are paid to absentee licence-holders by the fisherman who don't hold the quota. Without that connection of the licence back to the fisherman and to the vessel, you're losing that value, so the cost to the independent fishermen is going down.... A labour market study—I think it was the one Christina referred to—put out in 2013 shows that the average income for fishermen on our coast is somewhere around $19,000, which is about the poverty level. Fishing in British Columbia is not a great opportunity. Most would look at that and say there is no future in fishing. Part of the reason is this access and the tie that the department has severed from fishermen.

On the grander scale of the coast, Christina has accurately described the value of the fishery on the coast. The landed value on the coast averages somewhere around $300 million per year. The area I'm calling from right now is Haida Gwaii. In the area around Haida Gwaii, about $80-million worth of landed value is harvested each year. Less than 5% of that is connected in any way to the communities around Haida Gwaii. This means that either the licence is owned here, or the fishermen are living here, or there's processing happening here with that fish.

There's virtually no connection to the communities for the majority of the fish that's caught around here. That's an adjacency issue, and this disconnect is happening up and down the coast. One of the studies—

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. McIsaac, I'm sorry to interrupt, but if you want to spare time for the other two, I'm going to have to interrupt you there. Very quickly, if you like, do you want to throw it to Mr. Nobels now?

[Jim McIsaac]

I'll throw it to Marc right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Okay. I apologize.

Monsieur Allain.

[Marc Allain, Executive Secretary, Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters Federation]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Time is elastic in British Columbia.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Marc Allain]

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you very much for accommodating me on short notice and allowing me to testify. It's very much appreciated.

As was stated, I'm the executive secretary of the Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters' Federation, which is a national federation of organizations that represent independent fishermen. We have 34 different member organizations in five provinces, which in turn represent more than 7,000 independent fishermen.

Our members in B.C. are the United Fishermen and Allied Workers' Union, who you heard testimony from on Tuesday, and the BC Hook and Line Fishermen's Association, who, for the most part, fish full-time. They are working active fishermen who fish leasing quota.

I would like to make an initial opening statement on our federation's perspective on licensing policy in general. I would then like to address the three issues that are before the committee: fleet separation, owner-operator, and adjacency. I'd like to conclude with our particular perspective on licensing policy in the Pacific region.

Like my predecessors, I've written it all down, so I'm going to plow through and read.

Our federation believes that Canadian fishing licences and quotas should be held primarily by active fishermen living in coastal communities. In other words, the benefits of Canada's fisheries resources should flow first and foremost to the people who actually fish and to their fishing communities. We believe that the independent owner-operator approach to fishing provides the best socio-economic and conservation returns to Canada and, more importantly, to its fishing communities.

It is our opinion that it is in the public interest for the Government of Canada to develop and strengthen public policies in that regard. I mention the public interest because the Supreme Court of Canada has determined that it is the duty of the minister to conserve, manage, and develop Canada's fisheries resources “in the public interest”, and that should be the test. When you look at our fisheries policies, are they in the public interest?

With that in mind, our federation believes there should be consistent national commercial fishing licence policies on both coasts, and that B.C. fishermen and coastal communities should benefit from the same kind of policy protections as do their Atlantic counterparts, if that is their choice.

Now I'd like to address the three issues before you.

The first is fleet separation. Fleet separation was established in 1979. It applies only to Atlantic Canada and only to fishing vessels of less than 65 feet. The policy separates the fishing from the processing for that sector, the under-65-feet fleet sector, by prohibiting fish processors and other corporate interests from holding or controlling fishing licences in what is known now as the “independent core sector”. Later, I'll explain and give you some details on what that independent core sector is.

I'd like to quote the Honourable Roméo LeBlanc from 1977. He was the Minister of Fisheries at the time and was explaining the original intent of this policy.

Mr. LeBlanc said, “I propose that in future, we separate the fishing fleet from the processing companies in Atlantic Canada.” He said, “Fishermen should own their own boats, and be able to sell fish where they want.” Also, he said, “Creating a truly independent fleet should...raise fish prices and fishermen's incomes, increase the fishermen's bargaining power, create a healthier balance of forces in the industry” and invigorate fleet development by the fishermen. Mr. LeBlanc said that in 1977, and fleet separation was adopted two years later, in 1979.

What did he want to do? He wanted to impede or prohibit monopoly control in the fishery. He wanted to create healthy, competitive markets for fishermen's products, and he wanted to avoid, more than anything else, returning Atlantic Canada to the dark past of the company store and the fish lords who ruled over fishermen and fishing communities.

I know that some of you are from fishing communities where that was the reality. In 1977, it was in the living memory of fishermen, and he wanted to avoid that. The amazing thing is that he was successful.

Fleet separation was successful. Today, there is a very dynamic dockside market competition amongst buyers for independent fishermen's products in Atlantic Canada, and it's thanks to fleet separation.

I have some interesting data that I wasn't able to prepare for you in terms of the fishermen's share of lobster, for instance, and the lobster price compared to the retail price. I wasn't able to pull it together in time. I'll give you the big picture.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Very quickly, please.

[Marc Allain]

In 2014 the total landed value of commercial fisheries in Atlantic Canada was nearly $2.4 billion. In comparison, B.C.'s landed value for the same period was $390 million. Of that $2.4 billion, more than 75% was produced by independent fishermen. That's $1.8 billion going directly into coastal communities that are isolated coastal communities, for the most part, where the fishery is the only employer.

Fleet separation has worked. It has created a fleet of 10,000 individual enterprises, all independently owned and operated, spread across five provinces, and employing 20,000 crew. Most importantly, these businesses are almost entirely rurally based. They're rooted in small isolated communities where the fishery is big business, and often the only business.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much, Mr. Allain.

I'm sorry to interrupt. I interrupted only because we didn't give Mr. Nobels a chance.

Mr. Nobels, are you there?

[Des Nobels]

Yes, I am.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Okay. I'm going to be a little generous, with the generosity of the committee, and say that I'll give you two minutes. We're out of time right now, but it took us a while to get a hold of you, so for that we apologize. In that spirit, I'm going to give you a couple of minutes to summarize what you've heard. Then we'll go to questions.

[Des Nobels]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much to the committee for providing us this opportunity and for taking a look at what is a very serious issue on the Pacific coast.

Over the last 30 years, the policies of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Pacific region have essentially alienated communities in coastal B.C. from the resource base on their front step. They have created sharecroppers out of working fishermen and have put hundreds of shoreworkers on the streets, if not thousands. Is this the picture that the Canadian public would wish to see painted of its common property resource?

Over the last five years, I've had both the honour and the privilege of working with commercial fishermen in conducting significant interviews with regard to several projects that both T. Buck Suzuki and Ecotrust Canada have been involved in. I would like at this time to bring to the attention of the committee two documents. The first report is on values in the North Pacific fishery and takes a look at both the tangible and intangible values of the fisheries for the communities in the region. The second document is “Caught Up in Catch Shares”, which is a fairly in-depth look at the ITQ structure and what that has essentially fostered on the Pacific coast.

Communities have put an immense amount of effort into providing infrastructure to a lot of the plants and facilities that exist within their communities. That is being lost. The fishery itself provides a whole pile of intangible values aside from the straight economic dollar in-dollar out structure. Those values are what create the fabric of our communities.

As these policies have unravelled those fabrics, our communities have continued to shrink and, in many respects, to virtually shut down. We have communities that have gone from 85% employment to 85% unemployment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Nobels.

I'm sorry to cut you short.

[Des Nobels]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Now we'll have our questions and answers.

Once again, for committee members, Ms. Burridge and Mr. Morley are joining us by video conference. We have Mr. Nobels and Mr. McIsaac on the phone, and Monsieur Allain and Mr. Turris are here. Again, I'd like to remind committee members to address their questions to the particular individual, especially those who are not here in person.

I'd also like to take a short moment to welcome Mr. Sweet and Mr. Zimmer, who are joining us as guests. Thank you very much.

The first question goes to Mr. Hardie, for seven minutes, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, everybody, for attending.

A cursory 30,000-foot view is that on the one hand we have the interest in having a healthy industry. Mr. Morley and Ms. Burridge speak to that. On the other hand is the interest in having healthy communities. The two seem to be, from the arguments we've heard so far, almost mutually exclusive. That's the picture that's being painted here.

I want to see the degree to which—and I don't mean this in a pejorative way—corporate concentration contributes to more effective conservation. Is it necessary for one to follow the other? Or could there be effective conservation with the principles of adjacency and with the fishers actually having the licences to operate with?

I'll start with Mr. Allain on this one, please.

[Marc Allain]

That's a very good question. I think the Canadian fishing industry as a whole has gone through tremendous transformation, definitely since the cod collapse. I—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'd ask you to keep your answer short, because I have quite a number of questions, and I'd like to get quite a few answers.

[Marc Allain]

Okay. I don't think there's either a corporate or an independent monopoly on conservation. The independent fleets take a back seat to no one when it comes to conservation. The Canadian fishing industry has come a long way, and there's a common commitment across the board to conservation.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you for that.

Ms. Burridge and Mr. Morley, you're right together there, so you can pass this one back and forth, if you will.

We've heard that the Alaska fishery is very much more robust than ours is in terms of available fish. Why is that?

[Robert Morley]

Do you want me to take that?

[Christina Burridge]

Sure.