Fisheries Committee on June 9th, 2016

[Christina Burridge]

I'm not sure I have those numbers immediately available. I think the main points are the ones that were raised earlier.

The difficulty with salmon in B.C. is the highly variable level of harvest. In 2006, 2010, and 2014, we caught millions of sockeye on the Fraser River. This year, we'll probably catch none. In 2014, the income to fishermen for salmon would have been pretty decent. In 2016 on the Fraser, it's going to be non-existent.

Salmon is no longer the core of this business. It was in the 1980s, which is the time that everyone, including me, looks back to. Salmon, because of the extreme variability of harvest, where we get one good year in four and then perhaps two years when we don't fish the Fraser at all, is never going to drive the kinds of incomes that it did in the past.

This fishery now actually draws its strength from other fisheries. There's salmon and, to some extent, there is herring. Again, in the 1980s, herring was a fish hugely in demand in Japan. They paid massive prices for it. They never ate it; they just gave it as gifts to one another. Now we have to compete in the market where that fish is food, so again, the value of herring has dropped dramatically.

If you look at fisheries like the dive fisheries and geoduck, you will see that those are strong and profitable fisheries, and they have no difficulty in attracting labour or new entrants into the fishery.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

My question is for Mr. Allain.

While the fleet separation on the east coast has worked very effectively for ensuring that the control, primarily in lobster and crab, has rested with the fisher, could you comment on its impact on coastal communities with regard to seafood processing? One of the issues we have here and that has been brought forward is the loss of jobs at a cannery in Prince Rupert due to the lack of fish coming in, because the licensing policy doesn't allow it to go.

Could you comment on the situation on the east coast? Although you have the independence there, there's no directive as to where those fishermen go—they're quite independent—and some coastal communities have lost their processing facilities as well.

[Marc Allain]

Yes, there have been rationalizations. There has been change there. The fishing industry is a very dynamic industry because we depend on this wild resource. What we've seen in Atlantic Canada, for instance, as I mentioned previously, is a doubling of lobster production in the last decade.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

But there's a loss of jobs on the processing side because more is going to the fresh market.

[Marc Allain]

More is going to the fresh market, but we're also importing more. Also, more is actually going into processing because of climate change. Southwest Nova, which traditionally produced hard-shelled lobster, is now producing significant quantities of the soft-shelled, because the moult has changed. They were the high-end fishery that was all going into the live market, and now they have significant amounts—I've heard up to 40%—going into the processing.

There are challenges there, as you know in your constituency. There's a labour shortage on the processing side. There's a difficulty in attracting people. What we're seeing on the harvesting side, though, is that young people are coming back. They're coming back from Alberta, they have money, and they're willing to invest. They're buying licences. We're seeing young people coming into the fishery in Atlantic Canada. They see a future there—

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much, Mr. Allain. I'm sorry to cut you off there.

Mr. Donnelly, please, for the final question. You have five minutes.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Three minutes...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I'm sorry. By “five”, I mean three.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I would take the five.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

I have trouble with math sometimes.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I won't comment about that.

Mr. Nobels or Mr. McIsaac, to finish this off with the remaining time I have, Ms. Burridge spoke about fish processed in China—she gave that example—and the need for B.C. to produce a competitive product, which I think was alluding to the cost of harvesting or paying fishermen, which is too high in B.C. I'll also point out that Mr. McIsaac told the committee that the average annual income for fishermen in B.C. was around $19,000.

We've heard the two different cases. We've heard that owner-operator fleet separation on the east coast works well, and we've heard that it has problems. Obviously, we're hearing a case for ITQs on the west coast, and I think you're saying that there are some problems.

How do we reconcile this? How do we get more fishermen and more fishing families working but still work with the companies that are in place and have legitimately been working on the conservation issue, on monitoring, and on improving the situation? What are your thoughts on where we go from here?

[Jim McIsaac]

They're very good questions. The system we have in British Columbia is not simple.

On the issue of the average income for a fisherman in British Columbia, it's pretty low. What's happening with the landed value? If you look at the landed value in British Columbia, you'll see that it's been averaging somewhere around $300 million a year. Almost a third of that is being taken out in the costs of licence leasing and quota leasing. Those come directly out of the dollars available for fishermen for their income and for reinvestment in vessels, gear, crew, and all that.

It's impacting the recruitment into the fishery across the spectrum. Less and less new-generation folks are coming into the fishery in British Columbia, because there's less opportunity. When you look at that kind of income level, you ask yourself why you would get involved in something like that to earn a poverty-level wage when there are all these other opportunities out there. That's the scenario.

There are a few fisheries from which folks are able to make a decent living. They have licences either from family passing them down or because they attained them before they went to ITQs. Look at the difference between Alaska and British Columbia. Alaska went to quota shortly after British Columbia did, but they made the move there realizing that there's this impact of the transferability and the connection to the fishermen that needs to happen, so they put that in as a requirement. We haven't done the same in our fisheries here.

If we want to have viable fishing enterprises, small boat enterprises, on our coast in the long term, in the future, then we have to make that connection. As to the kind of timeline to do that, I would never suggest—and I don't think anybody is suggesting it—that we do this tomorrow. You need to have some kind of process to move this forward over a time period. It's not like fishermen are not going to produce fish for processors; there would always be opportunities for processors to buy fish. With regard to Canfisco having an opportunity, I'm certain there would be an opportunity to buy fish in the future from independent fishermen.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thanks.

There's never enough time, but in the remaining 30 seconds, Mr. Turris, do you have any any final thoughts on what you might recommend, given what you've heard on the two different coasts and the different structures?

[Bruce Turris]

Again, we understand the fisheries a little differently. Mr. McIsaac's logic about 80% of the $300 million going to leases is just not accurate. That's part of the problem: that it's not accurate. In fact, if that were accurate, none of the fisheries would be viable—

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Where would you suggest we go from here?

[Bruce Turris]

I think we're actually already on a path where we're trying to address many of the issues that will make our fisheries continue to be viable in the long term in terms of better resource management and science and industry involvement. I think that some of the discussions regarding salmon and the comments Rob made about opportunities for communities and enhancement and such are reasonable ones.

The reality is that it's an integrated industry, and it all works together, so salmon.... It's not just any one single species, so the more the fishery integrates over time, from the harvester through to the processor, across all species in all areas, the greater the viability and the long-term success we'll have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Turris, for your comments.

With that, we have come to the end.

I want to thank Mr. McIsaac and Mr. Nobels for joining us by teleconference.

I also want to thank Mr. Morley and Ms. Burridge. Thank you for your time and for being available through video.

Of course, thank you, Monsieur Allain and Mr. Turris, for joining us here.

That concludes the study. Plus, it concludes our day.

If there's nothing else, the meeting is adjourned.