Fisheries Committee on Oct. 5th, 2016

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Parsons.

We've also heard from scientists that one of the main reasons is that the warming waters, the warming oceans, are having a big effect maybe not on eliminating species but on driving them to colder waters. If we look south of our area, a lot of the rivers no longer have any salmon in them, and we're being told that might be partly the reason we're starting to see low levels in Miramichi. Newfoundland will probably have water that is a bit colder. Would you say that could be one reason there's still some fairly abundant numbers in Labrador and Newfoundland whereas we're losing them in the southern waters? What are your comments on that?

[Fred Parsons]

I certainly would agree with that. I did mention in the preamble that one of my biggest concerns these days is climate change. Some days in Newfoundland it's hard to think that we're in a warming situation or the like. Of course, it's not only in the ocean that we're seeing things happening. One of my biggest concerns is climate change in fresh water.

This year, right across the island of Newfoundland, in most places the stocks were down anywhere from 25% to 35% from last year. Now that really wasn't unexpected because back in 2013 and 2014 we had probably two of the hottest summers on record for Newfoundland—not only hot, but very, very dry. My office would be contacted every couple of days to talk about young fish, juvenile fish, that were just in the bottom of a pool in the streams where they were going to spend their first three years, and they were dead. Of course, the thought was that there were some chemicals or something like that, but the truth really was lack of water and the warming of the water. When you get to a certain degree, it's just lethal for the fish.

I remember quite well saying in those years that we will pay for this down the road because if you lose your juvenile fish—your one-, two-, and three-year-olds—in your fresh water, then you certainly don't expect them to come back as adults. That is a very big concern, and it is not one, of course, that we can address just by going out tomorrow and doing something. It's long term. With climate change, is the range of Atlantic salmon starting to creep a little bit towards the north?

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Okay, thank you, Mr. Parsons. I have to go to the next questioner.

We're going to go to Mr. Sopuck who is from Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa in Manitoba.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Yes, but I happened to fish in Labrador this summer. I've been to your fair province a few times.

Mr. Parsons, what would the harvest be on the Exploits? I'm talking of fish that are actually killed and harvested as opposed to fish that are released. What's the harvest, if any?

[Fred Parsons]

It's hard to know. Just as a little preamble to this, I should tell you that in Newfoundland there are no private waters. It's all public waters, so that makes it a little bit harder to extract the stats from it. I would expect that our harvest this year would have been around 4,000 fish.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Four thousand fish, that's truly remarkable. I asked the question because for $8 million to $10 million in economic impact, to harvest that relatively few fish from a population of, I think you said, 50,000 in terms of dollars spent for fish harvested, the Atlantic salmon fishery is the ultimate in sustainability.

You talked about year-class strength in Atlantic salmon. What determines year-class strength in Atlantic salmon, primarily?

[Fred Parsons]

This particular river tends to be be more of a grilse-type river from a year-class perspective. We're not getting to 20 and 30 pounds this year because we built this river using the gene pool, I guess, of smaller fish. When I say smaller, I'm talking about an average of four to five to six pounds. People aren't coming here to catch 30 pounders like you've probably seen in Labrador.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Unfortunately, I didn't. That was my fault.

[Fred Parsons]

We're going to set you up with a better outfitter next year.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Done. This is one MP who will take a bribe, yes.

[Fred Parsons]

There you go.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

But I'll pay, I promise.

[Fred Parsons]

It's an outdoor sport that people love and enjoy. We're seeing a very large move these days to release fishing. The culture in Newfoundland is that if you're going to take something, then it has to be fully utilized. If you're going to go out and catch a fish, don't put it in your freezer and throw it away, don't throw it up in the woods. It should be utilized. That's the mentality that's there. That is changing. You will get people now, not necessarily going all the way to release fishing, but they're saying they will take one fish, basically to bring home to the family and pump their chest and say they're a great provider. You'll get some guys who may take a couple, but people are starting to realize now that it's the pure enjoyment of the sport, and they're taking a different view of it.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I couldn't agree more. The catch-and-release ethic has taken hold right across the country.

Do the research and management programs at DFO reflect the importance of the Atlantic salmon resource, in your view?

[Fred Parsons]

I would say right now no.

I've had the great privilege of working with this conservation group for 31 years, and that's pretty well from day one in dealing with this river. In 31 years I've seen a lot of changes, and I've pretty well seen science slip a fair bit.

I'm going to say there are two kinds of science. There's one that's studying the species, trying to better understand the species. But there's also.... I'd bring it back to probably more research on the individual river systems. I think that's the big thing we've lost probably in the last 10 or 15 years.

We need to be on the ground looking at particular river systems that are showing problems to better understand that particular system. That's not to take away from the science we're doing on the species itself, but we need to have people on the ground. We need for people to be out in the field doing sampling. That, I think, has certainly shrunk in the last number of years.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I appreciate that.

I'll turn my last time over to Mr. Arnold.

[Fred Parsons]

Thank you.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.

Mr. Parsons, basically you're stocking this river from hatchery stock, I take it. I'm just curious where you're getting your hatchery stock from. How are you ensuring that you're not impacting the genetic...if there are any wild stocks left in the river or adjacent rivers where there may happen to be migration?

[Fred Parsons]

I'm going to set the record straight. I don't want to leave you with the impression that we're a put-and-take river.

In 1985, with not many fish in the river, we started stocking the river. That stopped in 1992. Since 1992 the river has been completely natural. There is no stocking. Really what we did was we seeded the river—that's the term we use— but that was it. After 1992 there were no more fish from a hatchery put into the system. We gave it this big shot, massive amounts of fish, and then we backed off.

Basically, our point was that we had to make it a wild river as opposed to a hatchery-fed river.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Were there, historically, larger fish there? You've said there are now no larger fish in the river. Were they there historically?

[Fred Parsons]

Not in great numbers, no. There are not too many rivers in Newfoundland. As opposed even to Labrador, Newfoundland tends to be more of a grilse, which is your smaller strain of fish, rather than multi-sea-winter fish.

There are areas, like the Humber, that have a realm of large fish, and the Gander. But other than that, most of the rivers tend to be your grilse fishery.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Donnelly, who is from Port Moody—Coquitlam, has seven minutes.

Go ahead.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, I am from the other coast, British Columbia, which is home to rivers like the Fraser and the Skeena. There are many others—the Nechako—in other parts of British Columbia. There's Vancouver Island, on the east. We love our salmon on the west coast. It's a huge economic driver commercially, recreationally, and certainly, culturally for the first nations.

Mr. Parsons, I applaud your effort on making the Exploits a world-class salmon river. You've given us an overview. You talked about the value and the returns. You mentioned fish passage and the salmon enhancement program that happened, I guess, historically. You've outlined some historical information or facts, and you talked about the current status and where you're going.

My first question is about the support from the federal government and from this committee. How do you see the federal government playing a role in your efforts moving forward on this issue?

[Fred Parsons]

Right off the bat I'll say the government has to get involved, but I'll say involved with us. This is not a point at which you say to government, you know, put all these fish back, but we have to get back to.... We did have a program back in the nineties. It was called CASEC and it was a well-funded program that enabled conservation groups to work in conjunction with government to do stock enhancement, to do river clean-ups and such things. I did mention a while ago that one of my biggest concerns these days is probably the restoration and protection of the habitat. I consider that to be a big priority. You know, I've got my years in and will probably pretty soon retire from the position, though I doubt very much if I'll ever leave the interests of the Atlantic salmon.

In our local area here, I did mention log driving earlier on and things like that. There have been all kinds of old dams built to build up a bit of water, so these logs could be driven to the mill in the springtime. A lot of that stuff is still sitting back in the country, rotting and basically creating more barriers to fish migration, whether it's young fish coming down or adults going up. I think that's an area....

I know that a couple of years ago, all the habitat offices—you're probably aware of this—all the regional offices for habitat protection were closed down, and right now we operate the habitat side strictly from St. John's. You have people who were in the field. You have people who were close to it. You have people who knew the operators, who was good and who was bad, who to keep an eye on, whatever. We're missing that, and I think that's what we really need.

I'm a great believer in things that work, and I would certainly be a hypocrite if I was any other way. If we could take a river like the Exploits from nothing and turn it into a world-class river.... In some years we're the biggest producer of Atlantic salmon in North America and we've taken that from nothing but an industrialized river. If we can do that on a system like this, the ability is there, I think, to be very creative. What works for one river system may not be the requirement and the need for another, but I firmly believe that if we go back and look at the things that work, do the research on individual rivers and systems, we can still turn the future of the Atlantic salmon around.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I mentioned I was from the west coast, and in B.C. we have a real challenge with wild and farmed salmon. This isn't unusual. Other countries like Norway, Chile, and Scotland have these concerns. You mentioned it in your opening remarks, concerns about aquaculture, and I wonder if you can talk a little bit more about whether that plays a part. I know there are proposals in Newfoundland for aquaculture. Does any of that concern you? Could there be a conflict? How do you see that potentially playing with wild salmon?