Evidence of meeting #26 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fish.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Susanna Fuller  Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Andrew Bouzan  President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation
Fred Parsons  General Manager, Environment Resources Management Association

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Folks, thank you for joining us. We will now continue on.

We're going to try to do this in this way. Because we're 15 minutes behind, we're going to shorten all of the segments. We have another guest. We'll also be talking to Mr. Parsons regarding salmon. We also have drafting instructions, folks, so I hope you brought your recommendations for a salmon study.

First of all, to our guests, I'm sorry about that. We had some voting to do in the House that ran a little late. Joining us by video conference first, we have Susanna Fuller who is a senior marine conversation coordinator at Ecology Action Centre, and she's joining us from Halifax, Nova Scotia. We have also Andrew Bouzan, who is the president of the Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation, talking about cod. He is joining us by video conference also, from the city we just left, St. John's. My apologies, Mr. Bouzan, that we never had a chance to talk to you there, but nevertheless we feel your input is going to be quite valid and we thank you for joining us here today.

That being said, we usually have 10 minutes for opening statements from each of you. If you could take 10 minutes or less, that would help us out greatly.

Ms. Fuller, you're first.

3:45 p.m.

Susanna Fuller Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre

First, thanks for inviting me to present to you today, and apologies for not being there in person. I was unable to fly to Ottawa today, but I think that in light of the recent carbon tax announcement, flying less is likely a good idea.

I know we presented to you on your study on Atlantic salmon, but I'll introduce you to the Ecology Action Centre. It is Atlantic Canada's oldest environmental organization, founded in 1971, and the largest, with 35 staff and 4,700 members.

We're based in Halifax in one of the greenest office buildings in Canada, and we work at the scale where we can make a positive change to the environment for fisheries and marine conservation. This means we work regionally, nationally, and internationally.

We've been active on fisheries issues since the early 1990s. We're currently the only civil society organization from Canada that attends international fisheries meetings like NAFO and ICCAT, as well as related United Nations meetings. This gives us a unique perspective on how Canada manages its marine resources here at home.

Our marine work began immediately following the groundfish moratorium, when we realized that there needed to be an environmental voice for Atlantic Canadian fisheries. Perhaps we should have started about 20 years earlier, but hindsight is 20/20.

We work on fisheries policy, research, and advocacy. We work together with fishermen to increase the value of their catch, promote low-impact gear types, and ensure that these types of fisheries are rewarded in the marketplace. Our vision is a healthy ocean and vibrant coastal communities. We have published numerous reports over the past years, for example, guidance on how to fix the crisis in the groundfish fishery, a national review of fishing gear impacts, and how to create a seafood value chain.

Last year we published a paper in the Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, together with scientists from the University of Victoria, entitled “Missing the Safety Net”, which outlined the relative lack of protections under the Fisheries Act for at-risk marine fish in Canada that either have been listed under the Species at Risk Act or where a decision for their protection has not been made. Cod falls under this set of species.

On a personal note—and I think this is relevant—I've been working for the Ecology Action Centre full time since 2006 and on and off before that since 1995. I completed my Ph.D. with the late Ransom Myers, who some of you might remember. He died about nine years ago. He left DFO after the cod collapse, partly out of frustration that science was not being followed, but largely because he had violated a gag order put on him by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, which did not allow him to speak publicly as a scientist. Luckily, we no longer muzzle our scientists.

I recently co-authored a report with my colleague Julia Baum, entitled “Canada's Marine Fisheries: Status, Recovery Potential and Pathways to Success”, which I believe you heard about earlier this week during a presentation from Oceana Canada.

Finally, I was born in Newfoundland. My father fished on the last two years of the Portuguese white fleet in the early 1970s. These are the last sailing vessels that fished on the Grand Banks for cod.

I want to outline a few gaps in the conservation for northern cod. It's rare, with a natural resource that we have so badly mismanaged, that we get a second chance.

We have a second chance with northern cod, but it will require a full admission of the mistakes we have made in the past and a commitment to not repeating them. Notably, cod recovery—and I'm sure you heard this in Newfoundland—is mired in the complexities of a much more valuable invertebrate-based fishery over the last three decades, as well as the ecosystem conundrum that we cannot recover shrimp and cod at the same time.

While fisheries science and management tools in Canada have arguably improved considerably since the cod collapse, the release yesterday of the Auditor General's report on sustaining Canada's fisheries makes it very clear that we have a way to go in implementing scientific knowledge and modern fisheries management tools.

Canada was instrumental in the United Nations Fish Stocks Agreement, which includes, among other provisions, an obligation of compatibility in management of fisheries in state waters. We are not currently living up to the ambitions of this international agreement. I'd like to give a few specific examples, some of which you've likely heard already, but northern cod does not yet have a rebuilding plan, 25 years after its collapse.

First, despite the development of the sustainable fisheries framework and its suite of policies that cover the application of the precautionary approach, rebuilding plans, bycatch, and the protection of sensitive benthic areas, to name a few, we don't have a rebuilding cod. Indeed, it has taken the efforts of an environmental group, WWF-Canada, to start fisheries improvement projects for both 3Ps cod and 2J3KL cod.

Second, there's not a complete set of reference points. While efforts have been made to establish science-based reference points, there is no upper stock reference point, and increasingly, the limit reference point is seen as a target. While the stock is slowly increasing toward the limit reference point, it is nowhere near what is required to sustain a fishery. There is no harvest control rule in place. This is a continued example of shifting baselines.

Northern cod stock was reduced by 99%. Recovering, as an example, to 10% of that former biomass is not a responsible management target. As of the latest assessment, of which I'm sure you are all aware, northern cod is only at 35% of its limit reference point. It is considered to be in the critical zone of Canada's precautionary approach framework.

Third, as an example, in 2011 the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, COSEWIC, which comprises government-appointed scientists, many of them on the marine fishes specialist subcommittee or DFO or former DFO scientists, assessed northern cod as endangered. If cod were listed under the Species at Risk Act, there would be a prohibition on catch, no fishery allowed under its current status. Yet we rarely make the decision to list commercially targeted fisheries under the Species at Risk Act because of socio-economic concerns. We have some sympathy for that, but a do-not-list decision has become an excuse to do nothing.

Northern cod collapsed 25 years ago, and it's astounding in my view that this is the first time that members of Parliament are conducting a holistic review. I urge you to do what you can through this process to ensure that Canadians can be proud of the recovery of northern cod in the years to come, rather than feel ashamed of our systemic failure.

Additionally, I understand you're beginning your study of the Fisheries Act at the end of the month and I look forward to speaking to you at that time, but I encourage you to think broadly about the scope of that review and how it might be applicable to the northern cod. Our fisheries deserve better protection than they are receiving under the current act.

Moving on to the economic benefits of a recovered cod fishery, as you know the collapse of the northern cod was devastating for Newfoundland and its coastal communities. It required huge amounts of investment by the federal government in the TAGS program, social assistance, and retraining. Had we managed the cod fishery properly, we could have spent that money elsewhere. It's also very difficult to market an endangered species, and for now that is what the northern cod is. To maximize socio-economic benefit for coastal communities, this needs to be rectified.

Small-scale and low-impact gear types should be used and marketed as such. There's a growing demand for place-based traceable seafood, and northern cod can potentially benefit from this if it's managed properly. If cod's recovering, let's ensure the maximum benefit to the Canadian public and those communities with adjacency to the fishery.

To conclude on a very practical note, I have several recommendations that we hope will influence not only your process, but also the ultimate recovery of northern cod, as well as the other 15 marine fish populations identified by the Auditor General as in the critical zone, 12 of which have no rebuilding plan.

Our recommendations in order of immediacy are as follows. First, complete a rebuilding plan. A robust peer-reviewed rebuilding plan for northern cod should be a government priority. Consideration should be given to the lowest impact gear type. We know what high-efficiency bottom trawlers can do to the most abundant fish population on earth.

Second, request a reassessment by COSEWIC. It should be tasked with reassessing northern cod so we are not in the position of increasing quota, marketing, etc., for an endangered species. This puts DFO in a direct conflict of interest with itself, which it is in currently with 3Ps cod, which is considered endangered, but is also certified by the Marine Stewardship Council.

Third, modernize the Fisheries Act. Our Fisheries Act must be modernized to include, at a minimum, the following concepts.

First is key principles of modern fisheries management, including the precautionary approach and ecosystem approach, which are critical in terms of ensuring protection of key species and the ecosystems upon which they depend, including foreign species. I'm sure you have heard much about the capelin in Newfoundland.

Second is legal obligations for rebuilding depleted fish populations with targets and timelines. The Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act in the United States does a good job of this and could be a model. Third is a legal obligation to report on the status of our fish population to Parliament and the Canadian public. It might strike you as odd that the only public reporting on sustainability of our fish stocks is being done by Environment and Climate Change Canada and not by DFO.

Fourth is adequately resourced fisheries management with a more of a view towards long-term sustainability and less towards short-term economic gains. Fifth is support and direction for the good people who work for the department to rebuild our fish populations. Proper resourcing would mean that the next Auditor General's report would be much more promising in terms of how DFO is achieving its mandate.

Finally, we need to rebuild public trust. The cod collapse, the recent Auditor General's report, the general sense that DFO is not doing its job, and the lack of transparency in decision-making data availability and management plans have all led to a significant erosion of public trust. Our fisheries are a public resource in Canada. They contribute to biodiversity, ecosystem function, economies, and our cultures. A commitment to doing things right with northern cod would go a long way to rebuilding the public trust of Canadians in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, and in the Government of Canada in general.

Thank you.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you.

Mr. Andrew Bouzan, go ahead for 10 minutes or less, please.

3:55 p.m.

Andrew Bouzan President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Oh, I thought you were going to go to a question period first, but okay.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

No, we'd like you to give just a brief statement if you wish. Tell us who you are and talk about whatever you'd like for a little while. Then we'll get into the questions.

3:55 p.m.

President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Andrew Bouzan

I am Andrew Bouzan. I am the president of the Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation, the largest and the oldest conservation group in Newfoundland and Labrador, founded in 1962. We have a wide range of groups and affiliated organizations, not only across this province but across the country as well.

I want to talk about some key points here today, a number of which were just discussed. Not to give too much of a history lesson, we all know what happened in the 1992 cod moratorium and the devastating impact that it had on this province—the largest Canadian layoff in history—due to clear mismanagement and governance of this resource.

First of all, I'd like to thank the committee for pulling this off here and inviting me to speak on behalf of the wildlife federation.

The main issue that I want to talk about is the cod food fishery in the province, one which many people near and far feel is not fair or equal, not nearly to any other fishery in any other province in this country. We get less time allowed on the water than any other province. We get less allowable catch than any other person in any other province, stretching all the way across the country.

Up to date this year, we have exactly 46 days on the water, up two whole weeks from what it used to be previously. Thankfully, there was some sign of good faith on behalf of the new federal government to allow us extra time on the water. At the first meeting with the new government I had, with Hunter Tootoo back in January, I had a good sense that there might be a better relationship built between this province and the federal government, in particular the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Of the key issues that I want to highlight here today, the first would be the issue of food security and food sovereignty in Newfoundland and Labrador.

First of all, the vast majority of food that we get in this province, over 90%, is either flown in here, shipped over here, and trucked across the province. On this island, which is the 15th biggest island in the world, we have less than 5% of agriculturally viable land. Getting access to food or fresh produce here can be very difficult at times, and even during certain times of the year there are communities that can be completely cut off from boats and deliveries into certain rural communities.

The second issue I want to talk about is safety, safety on the water on the north Atlantic Ocean. Unfortunately, even this year past, we lost lives at sea. During this limited time that we're allocated for the fisheries, there could be high winds or there could be high tides. The northwest Atlantic Ocean is unforgiving. We all know this here over the years of tragic incidents.

But the main issue, which I highlighted earlier, is the fact of equality. We are the youngest member of the Canadian family, and at least the bottom line is that we deserve to be treated equally, with fairness and understanding on the issues we face in this province.

Now, from what I've read on DFO, and in the last meeting I had back in June, Department of Fisheries and Oceans is looking to implement a tagging system and a licensing system for the cod food fishery. This is highly disliked across this province. If you are aware of the current economic situation we are facing, we have an over $2-billion deficit, with increasing taxes on just about everything here. Nothing in this province is getting cheaper, I can assure you of that.

This activity dates back over 500 years of our ancestors here. It is a part of our culture, it is a part of a traditional activity, and the single most important thing I have to highlight is the fact that this is a heritage activity. There are people growing up today in this province who have never been on a boat, who have never had a rod in their hand to go fishing, because they were deterred from getting involved in this activity by what happened in the early nineties. The management of our fisheries, even still to this day, is not what we deem fair for the vast majority of people in the province.

People are looking to go fishing to put food on the table. They're not looking to go fishing to put a picture on the wall of themselves holding a fish. Fish is food here, in this province, and that's the bottom line. That is pretty much the highlight, here, for me today.

Thank you.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Bouzan. I appreciate it.

Colleagues, because of the time shortage, it looks like we may have time for three seven-minute questions in this round. If there is any clarification at the end, I can come in with a short question, if that's agreeable to everybody.

That being said, you may want to split your time, except for Fin. No, I shouldn't say that, because you may want to split it with Fin.

First up is Mr. McDonald, for seven minutes, please.

October 5th, 2016 / 4 p.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First off, I thank the two witnesses for appearing today. It certainly adds to everything we've heard over the past week or so as we've undertaken to meet with witnesses and groups involved in the northern cod fishery, or the fishery in general.

The first couple of questions will be to Mr. Bouzan.

You mentioned the time frame for the food fishery or the recreational fishery, whatever you want to call it, not being long enough this year. How long do you think the season should be for the food fishery in Newfoundland?

4 p.m.

President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Andrew Bouzan

If I could think of a fair number of days allocated to this province on the water, I would say 72 days.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

Do you think the limit staying at five fish per day for each of three people in a boat is reasonable as well? At 72 days, five fish a day is roughly 360 fish.

4 p.m.

President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Andrew Bouzan

If that extra time was allocated to this province, I, as well as the people I represent, would be absolutely fine with keeping the current DFO limit on the number of fish per person at 15 maximum per boat.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

That translates to five per person.

You mentioned, as well, the notion of a tags and licence system coming in, because it has been talked about. All I will say is that what I'm hearing is that the food or recreational fishery we have now has no way of actually tracking what fish come out of the water. You have people on one side saying that we haven't gone to a full commercial fishery, yet we don't control the amount of fish that comes out in our so-called food fishery. The tags and licensing system would probably allow for a better best guess of how many fish are going to be taken.

Why would a conservation group be against that type of system?

4:05 p.m.

President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Andrew Bouzan

We are against that type of system for a couple of reasons.

First of all, there is an economic reason. This province is having some pretty harsh times. I'm sure everyone knows that near and far. The prices of food and anything else here.... People want to put food on the table, as I highlighted earlier.

On top of that is the fact that there are fewer and fewer people involved in the food fishery every single year. In the last report I read, a 2010 Department of Fisheries and Oceans report on recreational fishing, there was a decline of almost half. If I recall correctly, in 2005 there were about 130,000 rec fishers on the water, and in 2010, it was estimated to be around 70,000.

We have an aging population in this province. The average age of a hunter or angler in this province is about 50. It is even above 60 to 70. Getting younger people involved in this is a priority for us. If we lose part of this heritage, we won't get it back. That's one of the main issues here.

If DFO is looking to put in cod licensing and cod tags, I would highly recommend that it not put it on the residents of this province. I would not say that we are against non-residents being allocated fish through a tag and licensing system. That's understandable.

With regard to the price, if DFO wanted to continue with the charge or fee, the money they would gain would go strictly into a non-governmental, with the government being neutral, conservation efforts in this province.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

When you talk, Mr. Bouzan, about the heritage, I grew up close to the water and at a time when you could go out and catch a fish any evening at all on a boat. There were no regulations, no nothing. Is keeping our heritage more important than making sure the stock reaches a point of sustainability? Should we allow this to be a more open fishery, food and recreation-wise, broadly, or should we first make sure that the stock has reached a point that it could actually sustain a wide open fishery?

What are your feelings on that?

4:05 p.m.

President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Andrew Bouzan

If you are looking to ensure the future of the fisheries in this province, and any NAFO zones that you want to look at from their jurisdictions and all the different sections that they have, I suggest you put an end to off-shore trawling, which pretty much devastated the entire coast of the Atlantic with 50 years of industrial-scale trawling. The inshore, small vessels, commercial fishermen, that we have here support entire communities in certain circumstances. But I don't think you can put a price on heritage, sir.

I would say that would pretty much be my answer.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL

Ms. Fuller, with regard to the Fisheries Act and the study that is currently on the go with the northern cod stock, what are your reasons for why the Fisheries Act part should probably be done first before we make concrete recommendations on the actual northern cod study?

Could you give your reasons for that, please?

4:05 p.m.

Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre

Susanna Fuller

I'm not necessarily saying that it should be done first but I think they need to go hand in hand. From my perspective I have a lot of sympathy for how the fishing industry and even the food fishery feels. If you're fishing an endangered species and we don't make a decision to list it under the Species at Risk Act, then we do nothing essentially. If there was a stronger Fisheries Act that required rebuilding, it would allow us to say, look, we actually have the legal tools under the Fisheries Act to do this. It's going to take us a while to get cod right. It's also probably going to take a little while to get the Fisheries Act right. I think the problems with cod, and the fact that, again, we have 15 species in the critical zone with no rebuilding plans is because there's no legal requirement to do so. This is a real sense of conflict for the department in terms of the only legal way we can recover marine species is by listing them under the Species at Risk Act. We've listed wolffish but then we gave out 9,600 permits for allowable harm. I don't think we want to be doing that with cod or many other marine fish.

I really encourage you to think about how the Fisheries Act can fix the problems that have existed with northern cod. We need to ask why we don't have a rebuilding plan 25 years after the collapse, and what kind of legal structure would make it so that this no longer happens.

I know your scope is fairly narrow on the Fisheries Act, but I don't think you can sort out the northern cod and the other species in the critical zone without really taking a look at the Fisheries Act and making sure there is a precautionary, ecosystem approach for those things that are in the UN fish stocks agreement with a commitment to rebuilding and reporting back. I encourage you to look at what the U.S. government has to do to report to Congress. It's quite good. We need some sense of accountability. Why is it we've gotten this far with no rebuilding plan? Who's accountable? Without a strong Fisheries Act to actually require this things slip through the cracks.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Ms. Fuller.

I appreciate that.

We're going to go to Mr. Sopuck now.

You're splitting your time. Is that correct?

I'll let you know when you're about three and a half minutes in.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Mr. Bouzan, I very strongly agree with you that the issuance of tags for a recreational or food fishery is highly unusual.

I come from Manitoba where the walleye is the main species. People are allowed a limit of six per day and they fish all year round. Of course, there are indirect ways to determine the health of a stock such as the age structure, growth rates, and so on.

Does DFO do any creel census work on the food fishery?

4:10 p.m.

President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Andrew Bouzan

From what I know it's very limited dealing with the food fisheries in general. At the time of year when people go out, in the limited times that they can go out, you have to keep in mind as well that we do have other things to do in this province besides go fishing every day while the food fishery is open. We have jobs. We have families. We have other things to press our time.

I can tell you from DFO's own statistics that there are fewer and fewer people on the water every single year and that we have an aging demographic in this province. More and more people who I grew up with, family friends of mine over the years, near and far across this province, can't even go out anymore due to their age.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

To clarify, are there ever any DFO staff at the dock when people are bringing in fish from the food fishery, so that those fish can be weighed, measured, aged, and so on? Does that ever happen?

4:10 p.m.

President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Andrew Bouzan

There is DFO present in various places.

To what extent...? I would not say on every harbour, port, or dock in this province. Certainly not.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

No, I'm sure.

What trends have you and the other people involved in the food fisheries seen in the cod stocks, in terms of size, catch rates, and so on? What have you seen over the last few years?

4:10 p.m.

President, Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation

Andrew Bouzan

I can tell you that this year they've seen some of the biggest cods returned since the moratorium went into effect. A full-grown cod ages, most likely up to about 25 years. That's a pretty good estimate. With regard to their migration periods—and the ocean is getting warmer—they are heading up to more northern parts, even outside of the natural zone.

From what I've heard over the last couple of years, it has been a pretty sizeable increase for catch.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

Okay.