Evidence of meeting #44 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was audit.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
With all due respect, it would be a management issue.
We've had Mr. Stringer report that he has a good solid policy framework. His department has had the resources required to manage. Obviously there's been an influx of investment in the last while. However, prior to that, 1995 to 2009, even with successive governments, we are still at this point right now. As my colleagues across the way said, it's been 25 years and we are on the verge of perhaps 12 of our critical stocks in collapse.
9:40 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Absolutely.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
With that, would you say that is a management issue?
9:40 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
It's difficult for me to put a precise finger on whether it's funding versus management. What I can tell you is that in the case of, for example, the data issues, it became very clear to us that data transmission between regions to headquarters was very difficult. You see in our report that they did make a commitment to upgrading their IT systems. It hasn't been done.
Absolutely in this report, we find deficiencies throughout all of the different systems. Through the IFMPs, the observer program, there are a variety of deficiencies. That is typically what an audit does. An audit goes in and looks at what the government says it's going to do. My example is that we're going to put a woman on the moon. The government says, “We're going to put a woman on the moon.” My job is to go in and see whether or not we're getting there, how well we are doing.
So if the government has said they're going to have IFMPs for 154 stocks, that's what I go in and look at. If they say they're going to have good solid observer programs, I go in and look at that.
9:40 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That's exactly what the job of an auditor is.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I really appreciate that comment.
Commissioner, if you were to give this DFO management a letter grade what would it be?
9:40 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I can't do that unfortunately in the position that I have. I have indicated clearly where they have deficiencies. I have to say that the department, compared to other entities that I have audited, was very co-operative. Mr. Stringer has already indicated that they appreciated our report. Some entities will just say, “Forget it. We don't want to hear from you.”
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
With all due respect, we heard the department appreciate reports and findings, and commit to fisheries management plans in 1995 and 2009. Here we sit again, years later, without critical management plans.
9:40 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Agreed.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
We're getting excuses as to why things are not done.
I'll move on from that, Commissioner. In section 2.14 of “Report 2—Sustaining Canada’s Major Fish Stocks—Fisheries and Oceans Canada”, you mention that there are some existing plans that have been done, but have vague objectives, neither specific nor time-balanced. This would not be a budgetary issue so much as a management issue. Can you elaborate on that?
I also want to ask if you can elaborate on the conflicts of interest that your report found.
9:40 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
When we looked at the integrated fisheries management plans, we did find that some of the plans that were in place included vague objectives. They are also supposed to do performance reviews of these IFMPs and look at their objectives. In many cases, they did not do that.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
9:40 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Absolutely, some of these are definitely management issues. I just can't give you a broad brush. That's all. I can tell you specifically where we found deficiencies. That's the role of the auditor.
What was the second part of your question?
9:40 a.m.
Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Specifically, you'll see in our report that we found at least four companies where there were serious conflicts of interest. The department did not act on those areas.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Mr. Doherty, I appreciate that.
Thank you to our guests. We've come to a conclusion. It's now 9:45.
If I may, colleagues, I just need a very quick point of clarification again. I know we had a lot of discussion about northern cod, and we are in the midst of a study on northern cod.
Mr. Stringer, or others, you said that the LRP, the limit reference point, if I have it correctly, for northern cod was around 660,000 tonnes. Is that correct?
9:45 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That's right.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
What is the estimated current biomass of northern cod based on the last—
9:45 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's 34% of that limit reference point. The limit reference point is the average of the 1980s.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Interesting, okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Stringer.
Mr. Arnold, did you want to add something?
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Before we leave this topic, in responding to the commissioner's report, DFO has agreed to all of her recommendations and a majority of DFO's related commitments are due on March 31 of 2017.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I move that we invite the deputy minister to attend the committee meeting, the week of either April 3 or April 10 to report on how many of these commitments have been achieved.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
It is germane to the topic that we're talking about right now so I'm going to make the ruling that it is admissible.
Could you repeat it one more time please?