Evidence of meeting #5 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll start by saying that I believe that it is, but if it's not the case and there's something different, we'll undertake to get back to the committee.
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can give a bit of an added flavour to that. Basically, this is the beginning of a four-to-five-year journey we're on now to start to move the market access for the indigenous seal products overseas. It very likely is the relationship piece that you're relating it to, so we'll leave it as it is. If it's incorrect, we will definitely follow up with the clerk of the committee.
Liberal
Ken McDonald Liberal Avalon, NL
Could you provide an estimate of the annual cost of providing icebreaker support for the commercial seal harvest? For example, for a typical ice year, how many icebreakers, support vessels, and aircraft are required, and for how long?
Deputy Commissioner, Strategy & Shipbuilding, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's a very difficult question to answer. I can't give you a number.
One reason is that although icebreaker is an easy term to use, our icebreakers are actually multi-task vessels. We don't cost things by saying that an icebreaker is specifically tasked to a seal harvest or a specific activity like that. We don't view things that way, and it would be very difficult for us to work the numbers out on that basis.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
When we look at the chart on page 8, we can see continuous cuts to the budget, especially the part represented by the blue line. I'm looking at some of the problems we've been having in our rivers on the Atlantic coast, specifically the Tabusintac River and the Miramichi River, where enforcement has been really reduced. Is that a new direction the department is undertaking?
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, I wouldn't relate it to increased investment and enforcement.
It's hard to tell from these types of graphs, but this is all project-specific capital investment. It's primarily in vessels and infrastructure renewal.
Mr. Chair, if I could, I have an answer to the question that was asked of me in the very first round.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
I have one quick question on the seal industry.
Would the new certification process be recognized? Is that the point, to eventually be recognized by Europe and eventually be able to access that market? Is that the reason for the investment?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It is.
A number of initiatives are under way to help the seal industry support itself, not just in Europe but elsewhere as well.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Since there's a minute left, Mr. Muldoon, you said you had an answer to an earlier question.
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I was able to get my hands on an answer to the question asked of me by a committee member with regard to cases. I can tell you that the seven most recent settlements the department has agreed to have ranged between $2.5 million and $2.9 million on average.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll see if I use my full five minutes. If not, I'll pass on a question to my colleagues here.
On page 9, there's $23.3 million for incremental operating costs. When you were speaking about that earlier, you said part of that was in response to the spill in the Vancouver harbour.
Are those costs not recoverable from the polluter pays system?
Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll turn it over to my colleague, but I'll just give you the general idea.
The staging of when we get paid and whether we get paid typically doesn't happen in the same fiscal year as the event occurs. The issue is whether we will get paid enough and whether we will recover the actual costs or whether it will be some fraction thereof. Often, it's a fraction thereof. The purpose of planning is that we're going to incur expenses. We're sitting at the start of the fiscal year facing mounting costs and we can't foresee how we will manage the entire year without in fact curtailing other core operations. The dichotomy is to make an incremental investment or to curb operations, and the decision was made not to curb core operations.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
There were some questions earlier on the Salish Sea program. There was one program there a few years ago that I heard about. I think the acronym was POST. It was an underwater radio receiver system in which they would actually implant radio transmitters in the outgoing smolts and record where those smolts travelled up the coast. The transmitters would shut off for two years while they were at sea and then turn back on and record where they returned.
Is that program still running? It seemed to be a very valuable tool at the time.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Some of the technology didn't work, fundamentally.
You describe very well the nature of the program, how it was supposed to work, and so on. It sounds as though I'm being flippant, but please don't take it that way, but some of the smolts didn't behave as they were supposed to. They didn't go where we thought they would, and when they got there some of the tags didn't work as well. But, that said, we learned a huge amount from it. That particular program, in the incarnation that you described, has morphed just a little bit. Essentially we're continuing to invest a fair bit in improving the technology itself so that some of the tags we put into these animals will actually work better, we think. The ocean tracking network, which is based at Dalhousie University and operates all over the world, is the key partner in that regard. As well, as I was mentioning in one of my earlier answers, we're trying to figure out what ocean conditions affect some of our modelling work. We're starting to get a much better idea of what happens to these animals as they move out of the system, but that's still a great mystery, quite frankly. When they go out to sea, it's almost like “there be dragons”. We don't know where they go and what happens to them when they get there.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
The next question I have is on the funding towards the certification of indigenous seal products. Is this strictly for indigenous sealing products or is it also being used for sealing products from the east coast as well? Also, is there a movement to move only towards indigenous seal products?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The specific funding announcement was in support of the indigenous certification because that is what the EU has at this point agreed to in terms of enabling access to the market, so we are taking advantage of that, but we are continuing to work to develop international markets to support the industry as well. There are broader initiatives and efforts, I would say, financial and otherwise, at stake, but this is to take advantage of the specific opening that there was from the EU.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
So is there a plan to promote or certify the other producers of seal products?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There is an effort to ensure that it does get to market.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I have a couple of particular questions. You mentioned earlier the MPAs, and Mr. Donnelly asked about fish farms. You said they were not included in the supplementary estimates. Is that correct? So I guess to that point, what's the support regulatory reviews for major natural resource projects? What does that go to fund?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That is for major projects. There was the establishment in 2007, I think it was, of the major projects management office, and there was extra funding that was provided to various departments—DFO being one of them—all the regulatory departments, so environmental assessment, NRCan, Natural Resources Canada, Transport Canada, and a couple of others, including us, Environment Canada, to review major products: mining, pipelines, oil and gas, and those types of things.
This is funding that we've had. It's B-base funding, so it was funding that sunset and is now being renewed. I think I've already said that we'll probably be addressing it at the main estimates as well. That's what that funding is for. It could actually be taking place in the ocean, but it's also for mines, pipelines, etc.
Liberal