Evidence of meeting #54 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Jeff MacDonald Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, we do an economic analysis in terms of the impact for all of these, in all five protected areas.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
What were the results of the economic impact analyses?
9:05 a.m.
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's on a site-by-site basis. Each one of the economic impact analyses is done as part of the regulatory impact analysis statement. When we put forward a site for publication in the Canada Gazette, we need to do an analysis not only of the economics, but also of the social impact. Each one will vary—and we can provide the detailed information on that to you—but of course, it also depends on what human activities are taking place in that area.
For example, Darnley Bay in the Northwest Territories was a marine protected area that was very much community initiated. The community of Paulatuk was very interested in protecting the food sources for their community. The economic impact in terms of other activities was rather minimal, because the area was essentially an area for food security.
In regard to other areas such as the Gully or St. Anns Bank or Hecate Strait, there were some potential impacts on the fishing industry. Mr. Elliott and his staff are the ones who quantify that, and that forms part of the—
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Again, I'll direct this to Mr. Morel, and if he can't answer it, maybe another one of our guests can.
We know that crab quota cuts were just implemented in Newfoundland and Labrador. When you do an economic impact analysis, does it take into consideration the potential impact on industry in the adjacent landscape? For example, if we know that a certain catch like crab is already limited, do you then analyze how further restrictions will put a strain on the other areas where the catch may be available?
9:10 a.m.
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, we do, and I'll ask Robert to add more. When we do an economic analysis and we see some impact, for example on a fishery more specifically, we also look at whether these fisheries allocations can be relocated outside of the area. If it's possible, we provide that. It's always based on what the impacts are and what measures we can take to mitigate them.
Robert, do you want to add something?
9:10 a.m.
Robert Elliott Director General, Economic Analysis and Statistics, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
When we do the economic analysis, it's very comprehensive. It all starts with the area-of-interest process, and we will consult with and get information from all sources to make sure that the analysis that we do is as robust and as informed as possible.
When there is something that happens within an area, for example the crab quota cuts, we would do that even outside of the area-of-interest process. Part of our job is to make sure that we understand, when there's a reduction, that we know what those potential impacts would be. That would be folded into the analysis that we do.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I have one final question. When marine protected area restrictions are in place, does it apply to all fishers, all people?
9:10 a.m.
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, not necessarily. As previously mentioned, we can, for example, permit some fisheries depending on the gear or the method of fishing and forbid other types of fisheries. It really depends on the conservation agenda. For example, if you're trying to protect sponges, bottom trawling usually has more impact than if you're trying to protect other species that are not groundfish. It depends on the conservation agenda.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Doherty, and Mr. Chair.
The development of restricted areas for conservation of nature is one of the criteria for a marine protected area. Is total restriction from activities necessary for it to be declared a marine protected area? If not, what are the variables?
9:10 a.m.
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The way we've proceeded with the development of marine protected areas recently is with a combination of a core protected zone, where all human activity is restricted, and then we have what we call adaptive management zones, which tend to be around the core area, where, as Philippe said, depending on the conservation objective, certain human activities will be allowed. A good example for the committee to perhaps look at in greater detail is the Gully off Nova Scotia where we created a very large core protective zone, the objective there being to protect the habitat of an endangered species, the northern bottlenose whale. But then there were other activities, such as mid-water trawl and some sword fishing, that were allowed in the adaptive area outside of the core area.
We've established this type of concept in other areas as well, such as the Hecate Strait glass sponge reefs where we have a core protected area and then an adaptive management area around it. That is really the type of design we do in terms of establishing the area and what types of activities are permitted and not.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Can a marine protected area protect, say, the ocean bottom and still allow other activities on the surface, fishing and so on, or vice versa, close surface fishing to protect a certain species and still allow other activities, for example offshore drilling, that type of thing? Is it possible to have an MPA that would allow one but not the other?
9:10 a.m.
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It is possible to have that. Hecate Strait is one example where in the vertical adaptive management zone—that is the area between the top of the reefs and the surface of the water—some midwater trawling is allowed, or long-lining, safe in the knowledge it is not going to reach a depth that is going to affect the sponge reefs, but the activity can still take place.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Morel, could you have DFO provide this committee with a list of the new large Oceans Act MPAs in pristine offshore areas that are under consideration?
9:15 a.m.
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Right now we're talking with provinces and stakeholders. We have several potentials and when they are sufficiently advanced with the stakeholders, we'll have the potential impacts and they will be designated as areas of interest. Yes, sure, we can do that.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Can you provide the list in writing this week for what you have so far?
9:15 a.m.
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Right now we're looking at two potentially serious ones: the west coast offshore and in the northeast, north of Newfoundland, but we're also looking at other potentials so I cannot provide you with the boundaries or the scope right now because we are still talking to stakeholders.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
But just the names—I have two so far, and there may be others.
9:15 a.m.
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We are looking at several but we're not necessarily looking at turning them all into MPAs. We're looking at what the priorities should be.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Also DFO is ultimately responsible for coordinating Canada's national MPA system, but you're obviously integrated with Environment and Climate Change Canada and Parks Canada, so can you tell the committee how you're integrated and how the departments are working together on establishing the 5%?
9:15 a.m.
Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have several working groups at different levels and some permanent governance structures. The interdepartmental ocean committee is chaired at the DG level by Jeff, and at the ADM level by me, and it's also integrated. Some of those discussions also happen at the DM level through the oceans protection plan structure where we report on the targets and the impact of protecting marine areas on the ocean.
