Evidence of meeting #56 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
It would be useful in the fullness of time for you to flesh out those numbers for us because obviously, no matter what, it's going to be a big ask.
Thank you.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck
That's great and with 20 seconds to spare. Thank you very much, Mr. Hardie and witnesses.
Go ahead, Mr. Doherty.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our guests.
I'm going to ask that, as best as possible, you keep your answers brief because I do have a lot of questions.
Ms. Fuller, you mentioned the northern cod study and that we're sitting here 26 years later with a fishery that is nearly depleted or at a critical point. Would it be fair to say that this is beyond resources and this is more of a management issue?
9:10 a.m.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Management always needs resources. I don't think it's beyond resources. I think we are also experiencing changes in our ecosystem, but I think that we haven't really set aside areas to allow some of these species to have recovery—
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Wouldn't that be, again, going back to DFO more, because we've heard a lot about the successive cuts in the last 10 years with the previous government. For this fishery, 26 years would go beyond one government.
9:15 a.m.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Absolutely, yes.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
This question is for both of our witnesses. You both mentioned polling numbers and I'm wondering if you could supply the polls that you've mentioned, like the geographic data about where the groups that were surveyed are from, the number of people who were surveyed, and if they were indeed Canadians who were surveyed. Do you have the geographic data on those?
9:15 a.m.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Yes, we do, but if we don't send it to you, I'll make sure our colleagues from WWF send it to you.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I think it's important because, when numbers are thrown out such as 90% or 81%, we know that surveys can be skewed. It is also important to know that they are Canadians who are commenting on this and not others.
9:15 a.m.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
Yes. They're Canadians.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I guess this is a question for both of you. How do you balance economic activity versus protecting our environment, specifically on the west coast where we know that we have MPAs that are proposed? We have two of Canada's largest ports, the Port of Prince Rupert and the Port Metro Vancouver, and we have considerable trade and economic interests in that area. How do you balance that?
9:15 a.m.
Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation
I'll speak to that quickly. One way is to look at hard protection where it's needed and where it's justified by the conservation needs and our commitments around biodiversity conservation. There are a lot of other management tools for conservation.
I'll use shipping in the Strait of Georgia as an example. It's been shown through science that, if we slow ships down to 10 knots, the noise levels go down by 80%. If we refit ships with different propellers, the noise levels can go down significantly. If we exclude ships from certain places where we know that whales regularly feed, you reduce the risk of noise interference and also of ship strikes, and that's throughout the coast.
When we see the number of whales increasing—fortunately, after 50 years of decline, now they're back up and the forecast is to continue to go up—we know there are going to be more ship strikes, so we can manage things in a way without actually impeding the economic opportunities. I would argue that slowing a ship down to 10 knots for the last 20 kilometres of its journey from China will not affect the American economy. I have a hard time believing that would be the outcome.
I think there are ways to manage things. I don't think we're using those management tools effectively at the current time.
9:15 a.m.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
One thing is that we're a bit out of balance. We have less than 1% of our marine areas protected, so the rest are open for economic activity. As I said in my comments, Canada was founded on the largesse of our oceans. I think what we haven't done is given that back so as to actually have balance.
I agree with Bill that we can do better management to reduce the impacts on the marine environment without stopping activities; that can be done. We're not doing it right now in many cases. I thus think that we're out of balance, which is part of the problem.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Do both your organizations focus just on protecting Canadian MPAs or MPA interests or marine ecological areas? Do you solely focus on Canada as a whole?
9:15 a.m.
Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation
Our organization primarily focuses just within Canada. The only extension is through our sustainable fisheries and seafood program, whereby we advocate for the import of sustainable seafood, in which case we're trying to get measures in offshore countries to manage fisheries in a way that protects their stocks. Our direct work, however, is all inside Canada.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
How much foreign funding does your organization receive?
9:15 a.m.
Science Projects Manager, Western Region, David Suzuki Foundation
I think at last count it was about 15%. We embarked on a program about 15 years ago to switch our funding from foundation grants to individual donors, and we're now at a point that between 68% and 72% of our donations come from individuals in Canada.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Ms. Fuller, perhaps you can bring me back to your comment that it was disappointing that the information is on the minister's desk regarding MPAs and that there hasn't been action taking place. This committee has only just begun studying this. We know that the government has launched fairly aggressive targets for this year and next.
Can you go into that a little more? I was called to the chair, but I just want to hear that comment again.
9:15 a.m.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
That was on St. Anns Bank. I sat on the stakeholder advisory committee for five years. We were ready almost three years ago. The case of St. Anns Bank went to the minister's office—I don't remember the dates exactly, but sometime in 2014 or 2015—and it sat there for quite a long time with no response.
St. Anns Bank was not a controversial one, really, because a lot of stakeholder engagement had happened.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
9:20 a.m.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
No, it's moving now. It will likely be announced on June 8, but it needed to move.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Here is a question for you, then. How do we balance local interests against economic and environmental interests?
9:20 a.m.
Senior Marine Conservation Coordinator, Ecology Action Centre
I would say, coming from Atlantic Canada, that our local interests are fisheries, much of the time. We actually need those fish. This is one of our biggest exports. It's very important to our economy. I think fishermen would also agree that we can't fish it all or we won't have it there forever.
That was my comment, that some of the communities I'm familiar with have actually done some protective measures. They've put them in place, whether it's keeping one particular kind of gear out of an area or having closed areas for juvenile lobster protection. Communities, and particularly local fishermen, know that they need to put some conservation measures in place. This is why my comment was about how we empower those communities to be at the table in the very beginning, so that they can say what they would like to put forward.
Other larger industry players are able to do it. They have the capacity to do it. They can say, “Here are our areas. Use those, because they're not going to impact us.” At the community level, I think you've seen good things in Eastport in Newfoundland, where they've set aside an area that was driven by the community. I know of several community efforts in Atlantic Canada through which people are becoming engaged and asking how they can use what they've already done towards this goal, but it takes some support.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck
Time's up. Thank you very much.
Mr. Donnelly, you have seven minutes.