Evidence of meeting #56 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mpas.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
In your opinion, who's DFO listening to when making this decision?
10:05 a.m.
Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board
In my personal opinion, I think they're listening to the Prime Minister’s Office.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
The last comment I'm going to make is this. I'm going to apologize to our witnesses. I watched very intently Mr. Nickerson, Mr. LeBlanc, as well as our witnesses appearing before video. I watched the camera feed that was on. I think if any of our colleagues around the table could see the....
I'm going to ask...our witnesses who are behind them. The smiling, the shaking of the head, and the contempt for some of the testimony that we're hearing from these people who are impacted by these decisions is shameful.
Ms. Fuller, I apologize, you're not on camera right now, but when Mr. Nickerson was making his comments, talking about how these decisions impact, and the fact that you're right behind the camera and right behind him, I hope that you're not on camera—
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I just think that we're talking to the witnesses who are here, and the questions and comments should be directed at the witnesses who are here, not the ones who are not appearing before committee.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
With that, Mr. Chair, I will apologize to our witnesses who are appearing before the committee and are telling us how these decisions will have an impact. I think we have somebody on video who has a comment.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
It's relative to a couple of previous questions.
I think we have a situation here where maybe you have a good idea but it's a flawed execution. I would say that from our perspective, our perception on how this will roll out is that the decisions are being made on the fly, without proper transparency and dialogue with industry.
Alluding to a point I made earlier in our presentation, it's the position of DFO that they update industry twice a year. This has a huge impact on all the fisheries in Canada on the coast. The industry has had to go back and ask for more information. There really should be monthly updates, from where we come from.
Thank you.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank the witnesses, all of you, for being here today.
I want to refer back to a couple of meetings ago. We had another Mr. LeBlanc testifying before the committee. When I questioned him about the process, because I had heard it was very rushed, that staff were scrambling to try to meet the targets, he denied that. He said it was well managed, the staff were well resourced, and it was effective, efficient, and so on.
Mr. LeBlanc, we heard from you today that was certainly not the case, that it was disorganized. Can you elaborate a little further on that? We are certainly hearing two different stories here.
10:10 a.m.
Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board
I can relate back to our experiences at the two meetings and the many phone calls we have placed with DFO to get clarification. We simply heard that the answer would be forthcoming. We haven't heard the answer yet, on many things. Specifically on why this trough and why this area, we got no answer. Basically they said that the answer would be forthcoming and to be patient.
Then, when we met with Mr. LeBlanc, who is not my cousin, by the way—maybe a long-distance relative somewhere—even they were perplexed as to the level and the speed that it was proceeding. Some of them were kind of wondering how they fit in, especially with times. We were getting mixed messages from different levels of DFO, so to claim that this was a smooth, well-oiled working machine, that wasn't our experience. It seemed like it was a top-down approach. The region was left holding the ball and had to run with it, but wasn't prepared to even hold the ball at all.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
On the consultation process for harvesters and people who are directly impacted by this process, are they accommodating of your schedules? Are they considering your peak fishing times, the times when you need to be out on the water to make your living? Are they accommodating of that process?
Mr. Nickerson.
10:10 a.m.
Fish harvester, As an Individual
I can speak to that.
When they were defining the SBA on the Corsair Canyon, they did take time. They were more than accommodating with our schedules. We worked quite closely with them in a very quick time period to try.... There was a bit of give and take on, “Yes, okay, you can fish here. We'll try to massage this closure to best suit any damage to your fishing.”
In the end, we all agreed to protect the coral. I know and value the importance of the corals. It was pretty apparent that there were corals there, and most people do not fish there anyway. I never fished in that area regardless, so it was a win-win for everybody.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I meant the actual consultation process. Were they accommodating to fit you into the meeting time and so on?
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
I'll just make a statement here. I want to make sure that we're comparing apples to apples. It was mentioned earlier today that the island of Palau has set aside 80% of its ocean area as protected. In this committee, we need to consider what it was really protected for and what it was protected from. I don't believe there was any deep-sea fishing there. It was probably all protected for scuba diving and snorkelling, if I were to guess. It's a totally different situation from Canada, so let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges in our process.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Robert Sopuck
Great, thank you very much.
Everybody is right on time.
The next questioner is Mr. Donnelly, for seven minutes.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all our witnesses for providing your testimony today.
Mr. LeBlanc, maybe I could start with you. You mentioned your concerns for the organization quite well. What would you recommend to the government in terms of addressing those concerns? How should they accommodate the organization and your needs?
10:15 a.m.
Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board
My recommendation would be that they go back to square one and establish a proper process that is inclusive not exclusive, to make sure that all the participants who will be affected will be properly consulted and will be giving evidence, and have their questions answered in a proper and timely fashion.
The pattern that they used in their process was more like, “We know it's going in. We're just here to listen to you and after that we'll make a decision.” That's how we felt. We didn't feel included.
We've taken major conservation changes in our own area. We have moved on our own and had great co-operation with DFO, because we started as equals from the beginning. Within this process, we didn't feel like equals. We basically felt like people who might be heard but not be listened to. It didn't leave us with a real fuzzy feeling when we left any meeting with DFO.
I think moving forward, that has to be the first step.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you.
Do you feel that there are any areas that are worthy of protection in the seas of Nova Scotia? I think you alluded to this.
10:15 a.m.
Managing Director, Gulf of Nova Scotia Fleet Planning Board
I'm sure there are some areas that are worthy of protection. I said it in my comment: obviously a healthy fish is a healthy fishery at the end of the day.
At the same time, we can't forget what has been happening that has been very positive for the fishery. For the general public, when they start talking about putting in MPAs, their conclusion is that everything has gone wrong in the fishery. Actually, there have been very positive steps in the fishery, as taken by industry, by academia, and by DFO.
Sponges and corals are probably the obvious ones that need special protection. It probably takes, I don't know—I'm not a biologist—80 to 100 years to have corals grow back, so they obviously need special protection. I think process is the key to moving this forward.