Evidence of meeting #91 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boat.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Glen Best  Fish Harvester, Glen and Jerry Fisheries Inc., As an Individual
Collin Greenham  Fish Harvester, As an Individual
Keith Smith  Fish Harvester and Inshore Council Member, Fish, Food and Allied Workers
Billy Stratton  Fish Harvester, As an Individual
Roy Careen  Fish Harvester, CHY Enterprises Limited, As an Individual
Henry Thorne  Fish Harvester, As an Individual
Eldred Woodford  Fish Harvester, As an Individual

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Good morning, everyone.

As you notice, on the original schedule we had divided our meeting into two hours. At this time of year we don't normally have what we call the “silly season”, but we have a silly season where votes are happening throughout the day. The House doesn't open till 10 o'clock, so there's a possibility that between 10 and 10:45 there could be votes.

Rather than have the second group being frozen out of testimony, we decided to have everybody at the beginning, right now. Everybody will do their 10 minutes and then we can have the questions. That way, if the questions run short, so be it, but I didn't want to run the risk of the second group not being heard at all. Some of you come from fairly far away, and poor old Glen had to take a boat just to get here.

8:45 a.m.

Glen Best Fish Harvester, Glen and Jerry Fisheries Inc., As an Individual

I only just made it.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

He only just made it too. See? That's what I'm talking about.

8:45 a.m.

Fish Harvester, Glen and Jerry Fisheries Inc., As an Individual

Glen Best

The bloody thing broke down. It broke down again.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

It broke down. We have a ferry, folks. It's temperamental at best. That's the Fogo Island ferry.

Nevertheless, before I get myself in trouble, good morning, all. This morning, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we're talking about a study of the Atlantic Canada commercial vessel length and licensing policies, on a motion brought forward by Mr. McDonald from the riding of Avalon, the second most beautiful riding in all of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I want to introduce the people we have here. We have Billy Stratton, who is a fisherman, and Roy Careen, a fisherman with CHY Enterprises Limited. Henry Thorne is a fisherman as well. We also have Glen Best, from Glen and Jerry Fisheries, and Jerry is his brother, in case you were wondering. Joining us by video conference, we also have Collin Greenham.

Collin, thanks for coming out. You're in St. John's, right? Can you hear us?

March 27th, 2018 / 8:45 a.m.

Collin Greenham Fish Harvester, As an Individual

Yes, I can hear you fine.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Perfect.

Again, just as a reminder, when the questions start, if you have a question for Mr. Greenham, please mention his name and then ask your question. He's on video conference and it's hard for him to know who you're talking to.

Also joining us we have Eldred Woodford, Inshore Council Member, FFAW, but also, of course, a fisherman in his own right and a sealer as well, and President of the Sealers Association, and Keith Smith, who is an Inshore Council Member from the Fish, Food and Allied Workers.

You're speaking on behalf of the FFAW today, correct?

8:45 a.m.

Keith Smith Fish Harvester and Inshore Council Member, Fish, Food and Allied Workers

Yes.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Okay. We're going to start with Mr. Stratton.

Again, folks, you have up to 10 minutes as far as your testimony is concerned. Don't worry if you don't use the 10 minutes. If you just want to put out a couple of sentences, by all means, but nevertheless, the floor will be yours for up to 10 minutes. I'm going to be a little strict on time because we have many people testifying.

Mr. Stratton, please go ahead.

8:45 a.m.

Billy Stratton Fish Harvester, As an Individual

Thank you for having me here today.

I'm a full-time fisherman from Calvert, Newfoundland. The first topic I'd like to talk on is the salmon. I hold a commercial salmon licence. I don't think we're getting a very fair shake with the way the salmon is going. It has been closed now for nearly over 28 years. When it closed, we were told by John Crosbie that it was going to be five years.

I don't think we're getting a very fair shake with the way it's going. It seems like we were blamed for destroying the salmon or whatever when they shut us off, but the statistics show that it wasn't us. They have closed the rivers and closed everywhere for the anglers and whatever. I listened to Gerry Byrne on the radio and the television as he blamed it on the poachers. Where is it going?

In my eyes, I think that if it opens again, we should be allowed to go back at it. It's either that or come up with some kind of a sensible buyout. There are only 43 of us. That's all that's left now out of 105. I can see no reason why they can't up with something to buy us out, to get us out of it if he wants. It's either that or, when he opens it, giving us the same thing they're giving us on the rivers. As far as I'm concerned, they threw us under the bus, and it's time for us now to stand up. I'll be 61 on my birthday, by the way, and I'm the youngest one of the 43 who are left.

The other topic I'd like to talk on is these core and non-core fishing licences. There are people who got caught up in the cracks on that.

This is an example. My father came home from the Second World War and started fishing. He fished that for, say, probably 40 or 50 years, I can't tell you. We fished together. I started when I was 15 years old and I drew a trap berth in Calvert. We all fished, every one of us. My father looked after the money. I was 15 years old and everything else.... Then, when the time came for him to get out of it, he could have sold it for $33,000. Instead of doing that, my mother's sisters and brothers fished with us. They are still with us and are loading boats today with crab pots while I'm here.

Somewhere along the way—I mean, I can't understand it and I can't get the right of it—he turned it over to him.... All he ever did was fish. He did nothing else, not another thing, only fish. I can't understand how that licence came to be non-core, which if someone could tell you or whatever, or something.... The other side of it is that we're still fishing together. He's in a boat that's 29 feet 11 inches. Now, codfish are coming back on stream. How is he supposed to go out? He had the same quota, the same thing as what the other man had. How is he supposed to go and fish in a 29 foot 11 inch boat, 70 miles or 80 miles out or whatever, against a fellow in a 65-foot or 45-foot boat?

There has to be something done with this system. You're either going to have to let those guys get a bigger boat.... I mean, if we leave to go, I'm towing him around in a 29-foot boat. It's all about safety. That's what they talk about, safety, so if it's all about safety I can't see why it is the way it is.

This year alone, I would say that some of those people are going to be grounded because they've got nothing to go fishing in, and they have the same amount of fish.... If I have 3,000 pounds of fish, on core, to the hills...and every kind of licence you can imagine, I have, right? If I'm allowed 3,000 pounds of fish, he's allowed 3,000 pounds of fish, but he is not allowed a boat to go and catch it. There's something definitely wrong, boy, with the system, whatever it is. I'd like to see something done with that part of it.

I'm going to give you another little scenario before I stop, because I'm an awful man to talk when I get going. I'm good at it, right?

8:45 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

8:45 a.m.

Fish Harvester, As an Individual

Billy Stratton

I'm going to give you a bit of history on codfish. I drew a trap berth in Calvert when I was 15 years old. There were 11 of us who used to draw. I drew the big one, the big berth. We landed over 6,000 pounds of fish that year in that berth alone down there. That was in 1975. I drew it again.... I'm just giving you statistics now on the way codfish go up and down.

I drew that trap berth again in 1983. How many fish do you think I landed that year, in 1983? I told this to a fellow the other day, and do you know what he said? He said, “I bet you landed a million pounds.” Do you know what I landed? Thirty-six thousand pounds. That was a big drop, wasn't it? Yes. My father drew it in either 1989 or 1990, and we landed over 400,000 pounds of fish. That's the reason: because of the codfish. Did we ever get cod that year.

Anyway, that's it for me. Someone else can take over.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Stratton. That was well said.

Mr. Careen.

8:55 a.m.

Roy Careen Fish Harvester, CHY Enterprises Limited, As an Individual

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

I would especially like to thank my member, Mr. Ken McDonald, for giving me the opportunity to speak before you today.

I've been a fisherman since 1979, making me 39 years in the fishing industry. As you can probably see, I'm definitely out of my element here today. I have never spoken in public before. Most times you'll find me on the wharf or in one of my fishing vessels voicing my opinion or having a yarn.

8:55 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

8:55 a.m.

Fish Harvester, CHY Enterprises Limited, As an Individual

Roy Careen

The standing committee is conducting a study on vessel length as it applies to our Atlantic provinces. Here, I must stress “Atlantic provinces”. I will be personally speaking today with regard to the transfer of licences and leasing as it affects me and my family in the fishing industry.

Before I do that, I would like to talk to you about vessel length, as relatives and friends of mine are presently being affected by this regulation. A cousin and good friend of mine is in limbo at present. He is in the process of removing four feet from the vessel he purchased because at present he's awaiting approval or disapproval from DFO on whether he can use this vessel to fish in the upcoming season, which is only days away. In reality, this man only fishes inshore. He has an IQ for cod and crab, so it really should not matter whether his vessel is 30 feet or 50 feet.

As I previously stated, 39 years ago I started fishing as a young boy in a community that was 100% dependent on fishing to survive financially. Today, this community is very different. Years ago, many young people growing up in rural Newfoundland moved away to make a living. There was not enough money to be made in the fishing industry. One of the main reasons for this was that, as a fisherman, you were not permitted to combine licences or have a buddy-up arrangement.

However, at that time, if you had 50 licences in your community, for example, with four men in each boat, that meant there were 200 fishermen employed in that community. The union and DFO were against combining and buddy-up arrangements at the time, to try to keep employment in the communities of Newfoundland, and at that time they were correct to do so.

Rural Newfoundland, as we know, is not what it was 30 years ago. Times change, and so should the policies, rules, and regulations put forward by DFO and our union. We should be encouraging our young people to come back to the fishery, not preventing them from doing so. As fishermen, we are what we would call a dying breed. Most are born into the fishery and inherit it as part of their family, such I did.

With depleting stocks of most species, such as crab, cod, capelin, and shrimp, soon most fishermen will require more than one licence to make a living for themselves and their families, and also for each of their four or five crew members and their families.

As was previously discussed in the proceedings, how come when fishermen in Newfoundland lease a boat it must remain in their name for 12 months at DFO? A fisherman in Nova Scotia, our neighbouring province, can lease a boat for one month, and that Nova Scotia fisherman is then free to use his vessel after one month to fish other species. A fisherman like me in Newfoundland must wait 12 months to do the same.

I am from a family of seven boys and four girls. We are all involved in the fishery and the industry, holding licences and owning vessels. In my family business, we require four fishing vessels to fish our licences and quotas. I skipper two vessels, and my son skippers the other two, when in reality we should be able to fish two vessels rather than four, like those fishermen in Nova Scotia. Doing this would cut our expenses in half and encourage my son—and young fisher people—to stay in the fishery industry where he can make a decent living for his family.

For example, my son and I purchased two Atlantic white tuna licences about 10 years ago. Each year in September, we steer our two vessels 410 miles across the gulf to Nova Scotia to fish tuna. The tuna fishery is an IQ fishery, and each boat is given a certain number of tuna tags. In 2017 we were each given seven tuna tags on each of our vessels for a total of 14 tags between us both. We knew this in June. As father and son, a family company, we had a total of 14 tags. Why should we have to stay in two vessels—for a total of $410 each way across the gulf to fish—when we could buddy up or lease for one month using one vessel to catch the tuna, rather than the two that we presently use?

In the meantime, out of these 13 vessels that take part in this tuna fishery, three are Newfoundland vessels, while the other 10 vessels consist of vessels from Conne River and Nova Scotia. These vessels, unlike the three vessels from Newfoundland, are permitted short-term one-month leases, while we require a one-year lease.

As you can see, as time changes, so must we. A changing fishery requires changing rules, regulations, and policies. We need to encourage young people to stay in the fishery, not try to push them out. Young people will not stay in an industry where they cannot make a fair living.

In conclusion, I would like to stress that DFO and the union should not worry about too much pressure on our fishing stocks. In reality, the majority of our fisher people in rural Newfoundland are over the age of 55, and time will take care of all this. Also, when changing policies, rules, and regulations that are affecting fishermen, make sure that those who are personally affected are involved in decision-making and are not blindsided. When April 1 rolls around, it's time to go fishing.

Thank you.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Careen, and congratulations. You started out by saying you're not in your element. You've proved yourself wrong right off the top. You did a fine job, sir. Thank you.

Mr. Thorne, you have up to 10 minutes, please.

9 a.m.

Henry Thorne Fish Harvester, As an Individual

Good morning, Mr. Chairman and committee members.

My name is Henry Thorne, and here's a bit about my background. I've been fishing for 38 years now. I'm also a fifth-generation fisherman. My brothers and I started fishing in small inshore boats and have worked hard to build up our business to include a number of small boats and big boats. We have several.

I'd like to speak about an extension of fishing boats. In my opinion, it should be left up to the individual fisher person to determine the size of boat they can use safely and affordably. Considering the amounts in the licences they have, they would make the proper decisions on the size of the boat.

Vessel capacity is another one that I'd like to speak on. Vessel capacity and extensions kind of go hand in hand. This should be left up to the individual fisher person, because they may need a bigger boat to be safer and to catch a better quality of fish. Also, the way the fishery is changing, in the near future we may need to catch different types of fish and a different quality of fish, which our existing boats may not accommodate. We should leave it to the individual to determine this. Therefore, we may need bigger boats. I do think that if a fisher person was left alone they would very quickly determine what size of boat would best suit them.

Now, on offshore and inshore transfers of licences, I believe this could be a very good thing for the fishery. Over the last three weeks I had the opportunity to be in Fortune Bay, a small community on the south coast of Newfoundland. There were five or six 65-foot vessels that OCI had leased to catch an offshore redfish quota. These boats provided a plant with enough product to employ 50 to 60 workers for a number of weeks. Also, the town benefited from fisher persons spending money there in purchasing simple things such as groceries, fuel, and various supplies. I think there should be more of this co-operation between the inshore and the offshore. There are more species that can be harvested this way, which would help more small towns such as Fortune Bay and more of the small inshore fishing vessels.

On the time frame for operator transfers, personally, I think time frames should be left up to a fisher person to decide. If a fisher person wants to transfer something, let him or her tell DFO what it is that he or she wants and let them determine the time frame. I don't even think that there should be a certain number of days on it. Let them determine it. Some of them may want something for a number of months, or maybe just a few simple days would look after it. I'm going off my subject a little bit now, but certainly, the time frame we have today, our 12-month one, doesn't work. It's too restrictive. Fisher people have a business to run and need some space to do so.

I'll give you an example. We had a 65-foot boat at the marine centre a couple of years ago for repairs and upgrades. Before we could get the work completed, a fisherman from Nova Scotia wanted to purchase our boat. At that time, we had no intention of selling, but he made a very generous offer, so we had to consider it. After careful consideration, we decided to sell and then build a new boat. This was in October, and the only problem we thought we had was how we were going to catch our fish next season. There was no way that we could have a boat built fast enough for the next fishing season. We explained this problem to the Nova Scotia fisherman, and we strategized a plan.

The plan was for the Nova Scotia fisherman to fish during the winter months, November to March, and bring the boat back to Newfoundland so we could fish during the summer months, from April to September. Then we would deliver the boat back to him in the fall and everybody would be happy. Off we went to DFO with our contracts in place, which included financing for a new boat, the sale and agreement of the existing 65-footer, and an agreement between both parties for usage of this 65-footer. We passed the application on to DFO and, surprisingly, it was turned down. After endless appeals and our almost losing the deal to sell our boat, DFO finally agreed. It was ridiculous.

On combining, in my opinion, it's one of the best policies that DFO has in place to help fisher people. With some small changes, we can make it even better. There are some good points about it. It provides a way for fisher people to expand their fishing enterprise. It provides a way for fisher people to retire with dignity. It also doesn't cost taxpayers any money; it's cheap on government. Also, over time, it will reduce the number of fishermen and provide the remaining ones with a better living.

One of the bad points about combining, one thing I see wrong, is that it doesn't go far enough. It states that there's a certain amount of licences that a person can have in his enterprise. This is the issue I have with it: it prevents a fisher person who wants the opportunity to acquire more licences from doing so. Then that person sits on the sidelines and watches processors buy licences that the fisher person could have bought. If we were allowed to combine more licences, it would prevent processors from acquiring more licences, but because of the limitations stated in the policy, it opens the door for processors, instead of the fisher people, to acquire these licences.

In closing, I would like to say thank you to everyone for listening. I'll close with the following remarks.

Let us fish our enterprises and run them like businesses. Please remove some of those stupid roadblocks so we can fish and be prosperous.

Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Thorne.

Moving right along with our harvesters, Mr. Best, you have up to 10 minutes.

9:05 a.m.

Fish Harvester, Glen and Jerry Fisheries Inc., As an Individual

Glen Best

Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members. I would like to thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to speak here. I think I met some of you guys back in 2016 when you were at the beautiful Fogo Island Inn back on Fogo Island. Do you remember that? Anyway, it's good to see you again.

My name is Glen Best, as you've heard, and I'm a fish harvester from Fogo Island on the northeast coast of Newfoundland. My brother and I, and my father, now to a lesser degree, operate a multi-species fishing business, and I stress the word “business”, because fishing has become an industry that takes substantial money to operate, to be viable, and to create good well-paid jobs for the owners and the crew members. Our family has invested in the vicinity of $5 million to $7 million in capital to build our business, acquiring vessels, licences, and gear, a great accomplishment and one to be proud of, I think.

The one common feeling that I get throughout the industry and with all the fishermen I speak to is the feeling of frustration, and that's frustration with a capital F. You heard that frustration from the witnesses who already spoke. Everyone is frustrated, and that frustration grows every year. Every year, there are new rules that restrict us in how we run our fishing operation, whether it be less quota, leasing rules, season dates, trip amounts, or catch rules, and the list goes on. I could go on for an hour.

There's one common thing that I hear amongst harvesters, which is that we need flexibility in running our business. We can't put more fish in the ocean, but we can work together to try to help one another with the limited resource we have. By that, I'm referring to buddy-up, in which one fisher can go aboard with another fisher, and together they can catch one another's fish. That keeps costs down, therefore putting more money in the hands of the harvester.

For example, I'll give you our own personal experience. It's similar to the experiences you've heard about. My brother had a 55-foot longliner. He made a decision to sell it in 2016 and replace it with a better boat. Shortly after the agreement to sell was finalized, the shrimp quota got cut by 40%, in 2016. You have to realize that shrimp was our biggest money-maker at that time. DFO gave him a year to start building a new vessel.

Fast-forward to 2017. Shrimp was cut another 62%. Another 16% is forecast for 2018. From 2015 to 2017, he went from approximately 400,000 pounds of shrimp to 88,000 pounds, so you can imagine that taking that much product and revenue out of your business is devastating. Shrimp was our biggest revenue generator. How can you replace a boat with such a loss in revenue?

Since we already have two vessels.... At one point we had four, and we did some combining and got down to three, and then sold a boat, and now we're at two, because you have rationalize our business. Since we already have two vessels that are underutilized and sit at the dock for approximately nine months of the year, I think we should be able to buddy up and catch his quota on the two other boats we have. That would give us flexibility to divide the resource challenges.

He can combine his quota, and that's fine. He can combine it with me and probably split it with me and my dad. But why should he, after a lifetime of fishing, lose his core enterprise and be forced to sell it or combine it? By that means, he'll also lose his cod shares, his core status, his groundfish. Maybe down the road he'll want to re-enter the fishery as things change. Why can't we at least try buddy-up for a period of time to see how it works out? There have to be options.

There are a lot of other cases out there where fishers want to work together, be they brothers, family operators, or strangers. I know of a father who was one of the most aggressive fisherman on the northeast coast. He caught one hell of a lot of fish, probably the most fish on the northeast coast down our way. He had to sell his enterprise because he couldn't give it to his son to catch.... His son had a 65-footer. He was a young fellow in the fishery and he wanted to go on. He had maxed out his combining; he couldn't take that product and grow his business. His father ended up selling his business, selling out. That was a detriment to that young fellow who wanted to be in this million-dollar industry.

Today, we're at a very sad place in the fishery—some might say desperate—where most stocks are in trouble. Capelin are down 70%, says the latest stock status report. Shrimp in Area 6 are at an all-time low in the time series. For turbot, we have a very small quota, with foreign vessels getting the biggest portion of the quota. With the high participation rate in the Canadian fishery for our portion of the quota, that means the people who participate get a very low share, maybe 50,000 pounds maximum. Cod is showing a 30% decrease in biomass this year, when everybody was pushing with the hope of a renewed cod fishery to replace dwindling shellfish stocks. Now more than ever, we need flexibility to run our businesses. We need to be able to work together.

Should a fisher be forced to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, or even millions, when it doesn't make sense to do so? Should five brothers—or strangers, for that matter—be forced to invest in a boat to catch 3,000 pounds of cod a week when they could buddy up and put more dollars in their pockets? Should we overcapitalize this industry to a point where it puts more pressure on the resource, so that the fish must fit the people instead of the people fitting the fish? I think we have a history of already doing that. What suffers? The fish.

The fishing industry in Newfoundland has serious problems. The high price of crab right now is the only thing that keeps the fleets viable. If you took two bucks a pound off crab this year, we would have vessels that would not untie from the dock. If people want to combine and take on more debt, that's fine. I'm all for combining. Fill your boots. Go ahead, but I think we need more options, and one of those is buddying up. We have done that. We have combined. We have spent millions of dollars combining. Still, give people the option to buddy up and have the flexibility besides combining alone.

The fishing has changed and the licensing rules have to change also. There are options in short-term leasing. I'll repeat what Mr. Careen said. Some groups in Newfoundland, I understand, can lease for one day. In Nova Scotia, you can lease for 30 days. A guy from Nova Scotia can come to Newfoundland and fish on a short-term lease, finish fishing in Newfoundland, and go back home to Nova Scotia to fish. In Newfoundland, we have to do a 12-month change of registration. If we had had that changed, we could have worked that scenario for ourselves instead of being forced to sell our enterprises or combining up.

On the issue of vessel capacity, I don't know if there is a truly competitive fishery out there anymore. Crab has IQs, and capelin, herring, shrimp, and turbot are all on trip or cap limits. Vessel size and capacity don't really play into it as a big factor. If a guy has the ability to get that bigger boat for his reasons, be they safety, efficiency, or otherwise, it should be his decision if it doesn't ultimately hurt the resource.

I feel that the industry in Newfoundland has come to a point where everybody must be managed down to one common denominator. There's no incentive for a person to be aggressive or grow. This was backed by a DFO official at your committee meeting on February 15, 2018. It was said that even in an IQ fishery, a larger vessel would have a competitive advantage over a smaller boat on preferential fishing grounds. I always thought DFO's mandate was to manage the fish and the stocks, not control competition.

I understand that fishing has a social aspect to it too. I agree that we should try to keep independence in the industry so that a few don't control the wealth. That said, we must have the ability to make a good living with the resources we have and to work together. A lot of the rules that are supposed to keep us independent are actually doing the opposite. If you're forced to sell your licence or buy a licence to combine with your own, which in turn causes you to have a high debt level that's not sustainable, is that making you more independent? I don't think so.

In closing, I would say to Minister LeBlanc that changes in the Fisheries Act are supposed to strengthen the owner/operator policy. That policy only works if we have something to catch.

Almost all stocks, if not all, are in states of decline. Capelin, cod, and shrimp are examples. Science says that we're not fishing a large part of the biomass, so what's happening in the ocean? We have to consider the fact that there are seven to eight million harp seals alone out there in the environment right now, by DFO estimates. If seven million seals eat just one pound of fish a day—and I'm being very conservative—for 365 days, that would equate to 1,161,000 tonnes of fish. That's one pound for one animal each day. That's 1,161,000 tonnes of something that lives in the ocean, whether it be capelin, cod, shrimp, or herring. The list goes on. The question has to be asked: if the ecosystem is so out of balance, can those species ever rebuild themselves?

Then there's the issue of seismic testing. What is that doing to the species that live in the ocean, to the larvae, to the phytoplankton? We have new MPAs that have just been announced under the Fisheries Act, which are supposed to protect habitat and in turn help fish species thrive. In those same areas, the oil and gas industry still operates with no change. Seismic work carries on now more than ever. These are the issues we face today.

In the meantime, it comes back to my earlier comments. We have serious resource problems. How do we work with what we have so we can have the strongest viable enterprise possible that can attract young people and eliminate the negativity associated with fishing? I'm sad to say that I've probably been part of that negativity, because one day I said to my son, who is 20 years old, “Would you be interested in going fishing?” He said, “Dad, why would I when all I've heard is negativity?” It sort of sticks a knife in you.

In my opinion, we need flexibility. The way we're operating now is not good enough. When you guys were on Fogo Island last time on September 28, 2016, a committee member asked me, after I spoke, what the committee could do to help us. I'm asking you to pass on to the minister the fact that we need a change in licensing rules in the industry, because the status quo is not working.

Thank you very much.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you, Mr. Best. I have just a quick clarification.

First of all, before I do that, Mr. Greenham, you can still hear us, right? You're hearing all of this?

9:15 a.m.

Fish Harvester, As an Individual

Collin Greenham

Yes, I can.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

We'll get to you after Mr. Woodford.

In the meantime, I have just a quick clarification, Mr. Best. You said that in order to combine or buddy up with your brother, you would lose your other species licence.

9:15 a.m.

Fish Harvester, Glen and Jerry Fisheries Inc., As an Individual

Glen Best

That's the way it works. He can split it up and combine it with the other two boats. He's been fishing his whole life, since he was 15 years old, since he was old enough to get seasick. He can take his enterprise—he can split up his crab and shrimp—and he can put it on other vessels. But he has three cod shares that he would lose—he can bank for 24 months—that have to be passed on to somebody else. Now, with the news on cod, maybe nobody will want them and they will have no value.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Yes, I understand that. I was just wondering about the fact that you can't combine everything. That's what I'm saying. I just want to get clarification.