Fisheries Committee on April 26th, 2018

[Tasha Sutcliffe]

Very briefly, but not long enough to present any analysis on it.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

You haven't dug into it in depth to see that the fisheries minister has recognized that one of the first things he has to do is look at the Pacific salmon allocation policy?

[Tasha Sutcliffe]

I'm aware of it, yes. I've looked at it. I just have not dug into it, as you say.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Does that cause concern for the people you represent or you as a fisherman?

[Duncan Cameron]

I've slept about 20 hours in the last six days just trying to get here and to fish to get here. The fact that I don't know the details of the Ahousaht decision is telling of the number of problems we have to deal with, so I'm sorry, I can't speak to it. I don't have enough information to talk to that.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay.

May I ask whom you actually represent? I see that you, Ms. Sutcliffe, are from Ecotrust. You, Duncan Cameron, are here as an individual, but you mentioned.... Is it Save Our BC Fisheries?

[Duncan Cameron]

Save Our BC Fisheries is a website petition that was started after Dominic was talking about bringing in these owner-operator policies, but hadn't really seen support for the idea on the Pacific coast. Many people, not just fishermen, said, “What do you mean there's no support?” That's where it came from.

Another tipping point was that sale abroad. This is a petition to show that there is support for those policies on the Pacific coast and that we'd like to see them implemented in a fair and principled way. The issue is not just about fishing. You're going to lose B.C. coast pilots to navigate the increasingly heavy traffic in B.C.

There's food security for all of Canada. One of the first people on the conference call was a fishmonger from Toronto. I guess I'm just representing a sort of grassroots movement petition for support for this one part of the act.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Sutcliffe, according to Ecotrust.ca, your organization provides “facilitation and intermediation, building trust and providing space for hard decisions and negotiations.”

Is it the position of your organization that people invested in Canadian fisheries support or desire a loss of food security, unhealthy coastal communities, and unhealthy coastal ecosystems?

[Tasha Sutcliffe]

I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Is it the position of your organization that the people invested in Canadian fisheries support or desire a loss of food security, unhealthy coastal communities, and unhealthy coastal ecosystems?

[Tasha Sutcliffe]

That they desire the loss?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Is it the opinion of your organization that this is what the people invested in the fisheries desire?

[Tasha Sutcliffe]

I don't think anyone desires those things, no.

[The Chair]

Thank you. That's your time.

We move on now to Mr. Rogers for five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a couple of questions for Duncan and Tasha.

First let me say that it's nice to hear from you today, Duncan, talking about the financial challenges of acquiring licences or doing the things you need to do to stay in a fishery.

To start a fishery at your age, 22 years old, and to try to do the things you're doing is admirable. I commend you for taking on that kind of job in your life, even though you have family support, no doubt. That's great.

And Tasha, thank you for some of your comments.

I'm trying to get to an understanding of the Pacific fishery. This is new to me as well, as I haven't heard a lot of information about the fishery on the west coast. I know a fair bit about the east coast, but not the west; I'll readily admit that.

Does Bill C-68, from your perspective, enable a potential future transition from the current commercial fisheries' licensing policy in British Columbia to a new regime that would better support independent fishers? If not, what amendments do you think are required?

Tasha, I know you alluded to a couple, but I'd like to hear comments from either one of you or both.

[Duncan Cameron]

I would almost ask the question back to the room, if it's permissible. The active harvesters don't have the tools to dictate those advisory boards or management plans. If it it were permissible, how would we bring it in? I don't know. Everything sounds good, but how do we actually enact it? We can talk about how the transition needs to be fair and so on, but I don't know how we get about that transition when we don't have any leverage or any way of being part of the conversation.

[Churence Rogers]

Tasha, do you want to comment on that question as well?

[Tasha Sutcliffe]

I think the bill greatly improves the ability to argue for change in B.C. The inclusion of social, economic, and cultural factors...there are many ways in which it lays a foundation that will make it much easier to argue for change.

Implementing it, however, depends on policy and regulation change, and that's going to be a tougher conversation. There needs to be work done to explore the options. As I said earlier, I believe there are options, and we're doing our own analysis on what those options may look like, just to provide evidence and data and analysis to the partners we're working with to help them form their decisions.

It's very hard, however, to know what exactly that will look like. I can't say exactly what it will look like right now, but I believe there are real options and real transitions that can happen. I think it can be done in a fair, principled way such that it doesn't compromise people who get caught up in the change.

What we heard at the gathering was that people consider this urgent. It needs to be timely and it needs to be committed to. Although we feel strongly about the necessity of the independent review, we would not want it to be used to shelve or delay action. I think the government's supporting of engagement while simultaneously exploring what the options for transition could be is doable; it has been done. The work has to be done, though, to figure out what the option is.

I believe this can happen, and I believe that the bill will more greatly enable it to happen.

[Churence Rogers]

Thank you.

I'm trying to get a sense of how to do this legislation properly and correctly so as to have real impact for you people on the Pacific coast. I'm trying to get a sense of what this committee should recommend to the minister or DFO going forward.

That's where I am; I'm just trying to get a sense of what amendments might be out there that you know of or what things you support and what some of the things are that you have alluded to.

That's really my question. I'm trying to figure this out. I simply want to find a solution for you guys.

[Tasha Sutcliffe]

Absolutely.

I'd say definitely the whole section on social, economic, and cultural considerations needs to not just be about a definition of inshore fisheries that applies only to Atlantic Canada. It's very important for Atlantic Canada that it be there, but it needs to not exclude Pacific and Arctic coasts. That language is really important.

[The Chair]

Thank you very much, Ms. Sutcliffe.

That's your time.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

May I just ask for clarification, please, from Duncan?

I thought our colleague Churence Rogers asked a great question. I believe, Duncan, you made the comment about advisory panels. Was your response that we should ensure that the independent harvesters are on the advisory panels? Was it about how they go about getting on to those advisory panels?

[Duncan Cameron]

Do I have time?

[The Chair]

I will allow the answer. Please go ahead.

[Duncan Cameron]

There's no quick answer. I can provide a written answer.

I sit on an advisory board not as a licence holder, but that's not often the case. It's a very complex answer. I'm sorry.