Fisheries Committee on June 3rd, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll go on now to a five-minute round for Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A few weeks ago, I spoke to several guides and outfitters from across our country, including many who guide in our coastal waters. As seasonal industries that often use a contract method instead of payroll, many of these companies are ineligible for any of the support programs put forward by ESDC or the Department of Finance. What has the department been doing to help ensure the survival of these commercial sport fishing ventures?

[Jean-Guy Forgeron]

The department's focus has been dealing with those parts of the fish and seafood community that it is directly in the business of regulating, which is our fish harvesting community. I believe that recreational fishing businesses are seasonal businesses that would fall more under the other seasonal businesses that the department of ISED would be looking into responses for, as a part of the greater tourism industry.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

That's what I thought. However, these very same organizations suffered economically last year due to the restrictions on chinook retention, and that is something that the department directly sets. DFO has extended these restrictions to this year, and now these salmon retention restrictions for two years in a row coupled with COVID-19 will put even greater hardship on the recreational sector, as well as the communities that rely on it for tourism dollars.

Has the department done an assessment of the retention restrictions and the COVID-related issues and what the overall cost will be to the sport fishing sector?

[Jean-Guy Forgeron]

Sylvie, do you have any information in response to that question?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

I know we've done some economic analysis. I'd be pleased to follow up on that in writing.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I would welcome that.

On April 9, the sport fishing advisory board submitted a proposal that would help to address the legitimate chinook conservation concerns, while still allowing retention of hatchery chinook or wild chinook that fit in a slot size for those stocks that are not of particular concern. This would be an opportunity for the department to give an olive branch to those businesses that rely on these salmon stocks. I think it would create opportunities for the department to go down a different path, all the while ensuring that the salmon stocks, the natural wild salmon stocks, remain viable and that the commercial sport fishing entities remain viable.

Have you had a chance to look at the sport fishing advisory board's recommendations? Do you have any thoughts on them?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Yes, we have looked at the recommendations. We've been engaging on a fairly regular basis with the SFAB, both at headquarters and at the Pacific regional level.

We're currently pulling together all of the results of our consultations on what the chinook measures will look like for 2020. We'll certainly be taking that proposal into account.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

The government is currently spending money much faster than any government in history. I'm not saying this as a criticism; these are just the times we're in.

Has the department seized this opportunity to purchase equipment or do other projects, like upgrading hatcheries? Has it purchased marking equipment so that all hatchery-raised fish could be marked so we can pursue marked selective fisheries in the future?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

We did receive some funding in 2018 to raise our hatchery capacity. We are currently looking at how we could put in place increased marked selective fisheries. Again, that's all going to be coming forward in the plan for the 2020 chinook measures.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

COVID-19 has compounded many existing socio-economic problems that the recreational angling community is experiencing. I would guess there's also some work coming out of universities and from people who are studying the effect that pinnipeds are having on the predation of juvenile salmon stocks, particularly coho, chinook and others that might not necessarily be a target of pinnipeds. Seemingly, there is an increase in pinniped populations, sometimes a tenfold increase, compared with populations from a few years ago.

Is the department prepared now, based on the findings that universities are making and on reports that this committee has endorsed unanimously, to deal with an increasing pinniped problem and the predation they have on salmon stocks?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Last year we—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins. You've gone over time.

I would ask the witnesses to provide an answer to that question in writing to the committee, at the earliest convenience.

We will now go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes or less.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Good afternoon.

I thank the witnesses for being with us.

I would like to acknowledge all members of the industry who are listening to us, whether they are fishers, plant employees, deckhands, those who land lobsters and crabs on the wharves, fishers' associations or plant owners.

I know this is not an easy season for them, but we have been here before in the fishing industry. My father was a fisher all his life, so I have seen the ups and downs of the industry. I think the programs we have implemented and announced so far have been very well received by the industry, but they lack clarity in some cases. I know all the details are not out yet, so I have a couple of questions for you.

I want to start by talking about newcomers to the fishing industry. For example, a young person may decide to buy a lobster fishing licence from their father or from someone else. Have you thought about the fact that some of them do not have income from previous years to compare with their current income, which may make them automatically ineligible for the 75% wage subsidy program that has been announced?

These licenses are very valuable. They are worth millions of dollars. So have you thought about making sure that these newcomers have access to the 75% wage subsidy or the $10,000 subsidy?

[Jean-Guy Forgeron]

We don't have a specific answer to that question, other than to say that the representatives of the harvester communities as well as our provincial counterparts have raised that as an issue of concern for new entrants into the fisheries, in that they don't have that history to make them eligible for these programs, although they have the same expenses as those who are long-time participants. We'll be looking at that issue.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

Along the same lines, as I told you earlier, my father was a fisher all his life with his brother. Family ties are very common in this industry, with a lot passing from “father to son”. Now even mothers have their fishing licences, as well as cousins.

Have you thought about these relationships as well? Unfortunately, as you know, various programs make people ineligible if they are related. It is the case with employment insurance, for example. Have you thought of disregarding family relationships to keep from disqualifying certain fishing companies?

[Jean-Guy Forgeron]

They are the two new programs that we're launching at DFO, the benefit program and the grant program. There are no family-relation issues that we see as being issues for those two programs.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Forgeron.

Something else worries me a lot. In front of our house, every morning, I see the lobster fishers and crab fishers heading out to sea. However, one fleet I have not seen going out to sea since the beginning of January is the shrimp fleet.

This is going to be a year of great uncertainty for that fleet and the shrimp fishery. There is virtually no market. It has been going on for a long time, but this year will be worse than any other. The fishers do not know when they will be able to go to sea.

The programs announced are good for the fishery sector. However, what is being done about the shrimp industry, which sadly will certainly be in big trouble if there is no fishery this year? How are we going to help? Granted, the programs are there, but what are we going to do if there is no fishing season? Are you in discussions right now with the shrimpers to tailor our programs to that industry?

The provinces will also need to be involved in the discussion and be at the table to provide funding over and above the federal funding. Unfortunately, New Brunswick's Conservative government has thus far not spent a dime to help the various businesses in the province, in the fishery or any other sector.

[Jean-Guy Forgeron]

Sylvie, do you have any comments on the information that the shrimp industry has provided to us?

I know they have reached out to us and talked to us about the issues they're facing.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Anyone...?

[Jean-Guy Forgeron]

One thing I can say right right off the top is that we know that as this industry comes off of the employment insurance, it is eligible for CERB. We expect it will be eligible for fisheries EI as a sector, and as I mentioned earlier, the details of that will be done by ESDC. The sector, I know, has also recently reached out to the department raising a number of its concerns. At this point in time, we'd have to take a look at what they would be asking for beyond these programs.

These programs have been established—be it coming off EI, CERB or being still eligible for the possibility of the harvester programs—so that whether or not you fished the season, eligibility probably will be the same, and it's similar for EI.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Forgeron.

Unfortunately, that uses up what I suspect will be all of our time for questions and answers with our witnesses.

I would like to personally, and on behalf of the committee, thank the witnesses for their contribution here today. I know it's under different circumstances, and with everybody all in one room, it makes it a bit harder and sometimes confusing, but I think it went okay once we got on track. Again, thank you for your participation. I know most of you have been before committee before.

We'll give just a moment now for our guests to sign off before we continue on with committee business.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Chair, if I may, are we able to submit questions to these witnesses afterwards? We have a full list of questions we haven't gotten through yet because of the delays. Are we able to submit some questions to be answered by the officials as part of this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, I would suggest any member who has any questions that we didn't get to would submit those questions to the clerk who will forward them to the witnesses. I'm sure they'll be only too glad to respond in writing.

Thanks for that, Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.