I don't see him, Mr. Chair.
Evidence of meeting #12 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishery.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #12 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishery.
A video is available from Parliament.
December 2nd, 2020 / 4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Professor of Biology (Retired), As an Individual
Strange things are happening—good old computers.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Ask again. I may give a little bit of leeway on the end, but your time is your time. If a witness is not ready to answer the question, I can't be responsible for that.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
We heard testimony from Ph.D. candidate Shelley Denny that was consistent with the report from Dr. Megan Bailey, a Canada research chair who suggested that the reason for seasons is not just about conservation but about economic concerns as well. They both suggested that what we're really talking about is preserving the molting season, because there's a better market for hard-shell lobster than soft-shell lobster, and that it's not about the health and viability of the stocks.
How would you respond to those doctors?
4:45 p.m.
Professor of Biology (Retired), As an Individual
Basically, two considerations went into the original season choices. One was the biology of the lobsters. The idea was to keep as many females protected as possible that were going to be carrying eggs, and to protect soft-shell lobsters. The second consideration was in relation to the timing. The idea was to not have all the lobsters from all the Maritimes entering the market at once. They spaced it out so that you could get a smooth flow of lobsters into the system.
Then also, the oceanography is different. You can fish in the gulf in the summer, but you can't fish in the gulf in the winter, because it's ice-covered, whereas down in Southwest Nova you can fish in the winter. These were the considerations that went into the system, and they make sense.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
But you would agree that it's not just about conservation—that it's also about markets and economic principles, correct?
4:50 p.m.
Professor of Biology (Retired), As an Individual
It's probably 75-25. It's more important to preserve those females and to look after them, really, than to focus on the marketing.
The other problem is soft-shell lobster. Number one, they don't taste that good. Number two, they get killed very easily in the traps with other lobsters, which can kill them and eat them, and number three, they don't handle well, so you have a problem both with soft shells and with females.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Okay.
My next question is for Ms. Sonnenberg.
The 1999 Marshall decision didn't create a right. It recognized that a right had existed all along that the Mi'kmaq were deprived of, based on the historical evidence from Dr. William Wicken in about 1778.
Based on that, what do you think would be reconciliation or justice around providing Mi'kmaq access to a fishery that they rightfully had a part of but were denied access to for centuries?
4:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters Federation
That's the big question, Mr. Battiste. I think that we have seen some efforts to satisfy the Marshall decision as we received it in 1999. I was a young fisheries rep at the time when it came, and certainly what happened following that started that process.
I think there are other things. I think the concern in the industry is that we do help satisfy that right but that we make sure that it isn't just the fishery that bears the burden of changing the landscape about how things happen in our coastal communities. I think that's a huge talking point for all of us—that we don't go down a road that upends everybody. To satisfy it, I think that's a conversation for that table for all of us to talk about and to make sure that the Government of Canada can fulfill that need, that we're part of that process and that we do it in a way that's constructive.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
If the Mi'kmaq were to, say, fish within the same season as everyone else—which is not what their rights say under Donald Marshall Jr.—and they made that compromise, what would the fisheries associations be willing to do to involve them in the fisheries so that Mi'kmaq communities weren't filled with poverty?
4:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Independent Fish Harvesters Federation
In all fairness, Mr. Battiste, I think in the first round of Marshall, with regard to access we did step up after the dust settled and people came to grips with the rights and what that meant. It was all new to everybody on the fishing industry side.
I think that we have an opportunity to work together, and we've done that. These flare-ups that we see have been few and far between since the initial announcement came out in September of 1999. I would go—
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I've given you a lot of leeway there, sir, so we're going to have to move on.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'm being extra nice.
We'll now go to Madam Gill for two and a half minutes.
Go ahead, please.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I could ask Mr. Belliveau to expand on what he was telling me earlier about the mechanism that he referred to, but I have another question for him.
In a future full of hope, do you think that it would be possible to hold a meeting? Ms. Sonnenberg spoke about a forum. We know that you depend on the fishing seasons, but when would be the right time to hold this type of meeting with all the stakeholders?
4:50 p.m.
Retired Fisherman, Former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture of Nova Scotia, As an Individual
Thank you very much, Madam Gill, for your question. You're getting right to the core of the issue.
Certainly I believe the mechanism is our hope, our early Christmas present, if, hopefully, a recommendation will come from the standing committee to the minister to create such a mechanism.
In my opening remarks, I pointed to the initial interim agreement in which we found an agreement between both parties. We created a way in for the Mi'kmaq back in 1999, and there was a balance. There was a balance of effort coming in with new licences for the Mi'kmaq spread out in LFA 34 in southwest Nova Scotia, but right now we see this chaos that I referred to. We're seeing communities like Saulnierville and Meteghan being ground zero or a lightning rod for the ministers and the Mi'kmaq's transition for moderate livelihood. We have to have a mechanism, a table where level-headed people can resolve this thing.
Put one word out there: “adjacency”. If we can accomplish that, if there's a compromise there.... To me it's very clear in the Marshall decision that it referred to Mi'kmaq territories, and I point out again that Mr. Sack has travelled over two bands. We would not be having this discussion right now if Mr. Sack would honour that word, “adjacency".
I have letters here in my files saying that the two territories, Acadia and Bear River, had never been consulted on this moderate livelihood by Mr. Sack. It's unfortunate, and we do not have to put communities like Saulnierville and Meteghan through this.
I hope I answered your question.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Madam Gill. Your time is up.
We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes. Go ahead, please.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Hutchins, we've talked a lot about enforcing conservation efforts and trying to let cooler heads prevail on the ground and ensuring the safety of not only the public but also DFO officials and the RCMP on the ground.
We heard that DFO wasn't prepared for protecting the safety of fishers on the water in 1999. I think all of us want to see DFO officials and officers being able to do their jobs safely and with pride. Can you talk about what it's like for enforcement officers today on the ground? What resources are needed to support officers in doing their jobs effectively?