Evidence of meeting #22 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wild.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Living Oceans Society
PRV is a very good example, and I think Dr. Di Cicco is probably better qualified than I am to answer this question.
5:35 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
There has been an interpretation of the word “endemic” by DFO and the application in this case, because endemic can usually be seen as consistently present in a population, as opposed to epidemic.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
What about “minimal concern”? They keep saying “minimal concern”.
5:35 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
Yes. The problem is that even if it was endemic—and it's not—there are endemic agents that are a concern. There is IHN, which is another virus that is endemic of the sea and endemic of sockeye, but if they get IHN, they die. It's a measure of concern, even if that agent is endemic. Saying that because it's endemic it is not a problem is wrong.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
If this is being left out of scientific assessments, what does it tell us about the processes within the department?
5:35 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
The process as it was set up for those nine reviews was wrong from the start, in the sense that it was already narrowing the scope to only sockeye salmon and only in that region.... They were already positioning themselves for the failure of a meaningful review from the start.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Ms. Wristen, I'm hoping you can tell the committee more about sea lice on wild salmon. Maybe you can tell us what impact sea lice have on an individual fish and how the infection rate of Fraser River sockeye has changed between 2015 and 2020.
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Living Oceans Society
Fraser River sockeye are very much at risk from sea lice, particularly as they were passing through the Discovery Islands in 2020. The monitoring results from 2020 indicated that 99% of the fish sampled were infected with an average of nine lice per fish. At that rate, the fish are suffering extreme stress. It's interfering with their ability to regulate their blood chemistry. They're not likely to feed well, and their chances of survival are severely depressed.
These are the—
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Yes. When we have high infection rates like you're seeing, what do they mean for salmon returns? There are a lot of things impacting wild salmon returns. Is there a way we can quantify or look at how sea lice infections are impacting these numbers? Is this an isolated problem, just for the Fraser salmon?
Also, what about the pesticides that companies are using? Maybe you could speak about that as well.
5:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Living Oceans Society
It's not isolated to the Fraser River salmon, by any means. Fraser sockeye took quite a beating this year. There are other places where the lice have been out of control, because they are now resistant to drugs. It's been the same case. Clayoquot Sound is another good case in point. The Broughton was too, until we started removing salmon farms and reduced the lice pressure there.
Sea lice are everywhere. It's not going to change, because they are not something that can be controlled. It has not happened anywhere in the world and it's not going to happen here.
I'm sorry, Mr. Johns, but the second part of your question just escaped me. You asked me two very distinct things.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Since the infection rate is this high, can you talk about how we can quantify or look at sea lice infections impacting stocks in these large numbers?
5:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Living Oceans Society
In terms of quantifying it, we know where they're being impacted. However, quantifying the impact on individual runs is extremely difficult because we don't have a great deal of data on runs in many parts of the province. They've dwindled to almost nothing and they can't stand any more impact. That's all we really need to know at this point.
March 24th, 2021 / 5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
It looks like you're trying to give me some time, Mr. Chair, so I'll go ahead and take it.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you.
My questions will be primarily for Ms. Wristen and Dr. Di Cicco.
Would it be fair to say that Tenacibaculum is ubiquitous in the Pacific Ocean? Is it more ubiquitous wherever there is fish farming?
5:40 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
It's ubiquitous in the Pacific Ocean, but it's definitely more prevalent around salmon farms.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Okay. The prevalence is increased around farming.
It doesn't appear to be only a salmonid issue. Is that correct? You can find it in flatfish and various stocks throughout the water column, from the ground fish right to the surface.
5:40 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
Yes, it can impact several different species. The mouth rot that Ms. Wristen was referring to is a particular manifestation for Atlantic salmon. Tenacibaculosis—that's the name of the disease—occurs in different species.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
5:40 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
I don't think there's been a challenge where it has tried to go from one species to another, but I wouldn't exclude that.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
I want to talk about the infection fatality rate for Tenacibaculum. Is it the same for juvenile salmonids as it is for adults?
5:40 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
It's probably one of the main causes of high mortality—at least in the farms, where it's easier to study—compared with all the other agents that usually occur. In the first three months, it's probably the main cause of mortality. There's a pretty acute [Technical difficulty—Editor] mortality.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
I'm sorry, but would that be primarily in juveniles? Does it matter?
5:40 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
It can happen in every phase, but it's more common in juveniles, yes.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
We're looking at an 87% infection rate, and we're talking about the spatially determined rates along the migration routes. I think Ms. Wristen brought that up.
Have you cross-referenced this with the research that's done by Kintama and others to verify that this mouth rot, or Tenacibaculum, actually corresponds with the findings of the spatial studies that Kintama has done?
