Evidence of meeting #22 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wild.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:15 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
Well, predators definitely play a role. We have to consider two factors when we consider predators. Predators also remove sick fish from the population, so that's one benefit, actually, of having predators, but we have to take into consideration the balance between predator and prey.
I would say it might be a contributing factor, but the actual amount of the factor still has to be evaluated. There are contrasting studies on that.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Mr. Rosenau, we've heard comments in the past that some of the flood control systems in use along the Fraser River are old and were designed without fish survivability in mind.
Is this your observation, and would you have a recommendation about how much emphasis we should put on updating and modernizing those systems?
6:15 p.m.
Instructor, Fish, Wildlife and Recreation Program, British Columbia Institute of Technology, As an Individual
The flood system is actually pretty good in terms of the diking. It's the pump stations that are old and decrepit—or at least some of them. The local governments have been slowly upgrading them. The Somass River pump station is pretty fish-friendly. The Salmon River in Langley is pretty fish-friendly. There's a lot of habitat behind those dikes that would have been there prior to diking, so the more pump stations that we can fix and make fish-friendly, the better we are.
Recall that 50% of the Fraser River stocks were actually below Hope, downstream of Hope, so your point is really well taken. All of these dikes, all of these pump stations, have an impact, and fixing those has potentially large benefits.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
When we look at our recommendations for this, I would be tempted—just to be very provocative about it—to call for a complete ban on new development along the Fraser River, which, of course, would put some pressure on the municipalities to preserve whatever industrial access remains. Or, would you—just purely from the viewpoint of the salmon—suggest that it's better to have a bunch of townhouses next to the river than a sawmill?
6:15 p.m.
Instructor, Fish, Wildlife and Recreation Program, British Columbia Institute of Technology, As an Individual
If you're exchanging a brown field for an even browner field, I guess it's site specific. If you're taking a sawmill and turning it into a subdivision, you should be able to negotiate a riparian area—at least get something out of it. That should be one of the positive things. Some of the stuff I've seen, say, in Fort Langley—and you're aware of this.... The development there by the old sawmill didn't go wide enough, in my view. The big thing, though, is the change from flood-land forest to farmland. These guys keep pushing and pushing and pushing, so that's the really big thing in terms of development, in my opinion.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Can you talk about the cumulative impact? It seems that each development proposal is assessed, but it seems to be assessed on its own merit, without much of a shadow cast back to what happened before and what was approved before.
6:15 p.m.
Instructor, Fish, Wildlife and Recreation Program, British Columbia Institute of Technology, As an Individual
There's a little story behind that that's right in your backyard. We found out.... Some of the folks who have met with you—I don't know if you remember, but I actually met with you over the Kinder Morgan thing—some of these guys, under the cover of darkness, got their restrictive covenants removed in the Langley-Surrey area. Not only were we not holding the line, but we were making some great, big steps backwards.
Notwithstanding the fact that some of the local governments are pretty good about this, yes, the steamroller effect of all the population moving into the Lower Mainland almost seems unresolvable.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Dr. Di Cicco, we were told by the DFO that the DNA of the PRV that was in the fish farms was different from that which was found in the salmon. Is that the case? Are we dealing with different viruses?
6:15 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
No, we are not. We have just been working on a study that is under review right now, and we were able to see that the virus that we find in wild salmon jumps a bit back and forth between farmed salmon and wild salmon.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Hardie.
Ms. May, I notice that you have your hand up. Is there any particular reason?
6:20 p.m.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
I was hoping there might be a tiny chance for one more quick question.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
6:20 p.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question once more goes to all the witnesses.
Given that we are living in an unprecedented crisis, as Mr. Rosenau said, do you believe that, given its mission, the department feels that it is able to solve the current issue completely? Do we need to make changes to the department's mission? Is it possible to consider collaboration with other departments?
6:20 p.m.
Instructor, Fish, Wildlife and Recreation Program, British Columbia Institute of Technology, As an Individual
I guess you used my name, so I'll jump in first.
If a violation occurs, a fisheries officer goes out and does an investigation. He then takes it to the FFHPP—the fish and fish habitat protection program—and those guys have to make a decision with regard to whether a charge takes place or not. On top of that, those guys do what's known as a triage, and they say, “That's unlikely to win in court. That's unlikely to be able to be addressed. Okay, we'll pick this one.”
The very notion of a triage says to me that the department is so understaffed with regard to habitat protection and habitat mitigation and resolution that.... It's easy for me to say that more money and more resources have to go into the agency, but I can't see any other way around it unless more support capacity is thrown at these really egregious issues.
6:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Living Oceans Society
Perhaps I could just say, in agreeing with Marvin, that this is an opportunity for reconciliation. It's an opportunity to invest in first nations guardians programs to get them involved in not just the monitoring and enforcement end of things, but also in research to really build capacity in the communities to take care of the resource.
This is an important area for government to consider investing in as it considers how to protect wild salmon.
6:20 p.m.
Fish Health Researcher, Pacific Salmon Foundation
Yes, I can speak for the official section.
Every time I meet with the aquaculture men in the division I hear the great job they do, but also how much they are limited in their work because of the limited staff. Definitely that would be another aspect that could be taken into consideration if you want to improve that aspect of the issue.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Madame Gill.
We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and half minutes or less, please.
6:20 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Dr. Rosenau, we talked about the critical importance of restoration enhancement and habitat protection. Of course monitoring and science go into the fold as well.
Do you believe that this budget is so critical? Is it critical that we have a wild salmon recovery budget?
I know that the Nuu-chah-nulth where I live have been looking for funds to help rebuild the habitat and protect habitat. Often they don't get the applications supported because there are so few funds.
Do you believe that this budget is absolutely critical?
6:20 p.m.
Instructor, Fish, Wildlife and Recreation Program, British Columbia Institute of Technology, As an Individual
I don't know the details of the budget, but in a general sense, yes, more needs to be done. We're just sitting here in a crisis situation.
I mentioned the passenger pigeon and coho. That happened 30 years ago. Sockeye have basically disappeared off the map, so yes, I would agree with you.
6:20 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Ms. Wristen, do you want to comment on that, as well as on the fact that there are pesticides going into the water to deal with sea lice?
You talk about the impact not just on the salmon, but obviously on the other stocks in the ecosystem.
6:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Living Oceans Society
Yes, there is considerable concern about the pesticides and the abundance of shellfish like krill in particular—which is food for so many parts of the food web—being impacted, with no study whatsoever being done on it.
Our concern is also the likelihood that additional chemicals will be brought into the mix, as they have been unable, here in B.C., to control sea lice with the mechanical equipment they have brought in. Since the drugs have failed, the next thing is to move on to the next level of toxic drugs. There are severe consequences, particularly for shellfish, if such drugs are used here on this coast. Again, those haven't been studied either. It's critical that we get a grip on this right away.