Fisheries Committee on April 26th, 2021

[Rebecca Reid]

The thing with restoration is that it's hugely expensive, so are we putting the money in the best places? We work very hard to prioritize and work with stakeholders, with indigenous groups, to really ensure value for money. There's a need for greater coordination between the stakeholders, so that we can take the various sources of money and collectively put it to good use. There are opportunities for improvement, yes.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

When we were looking at the Big Bar slide last year, hatcheries came up in the discussion, particularly hatcheries further upstream from the slide. There was really quite a bit of disagreement about the role that hatcheries should play and whether or not they're helpful in the grand scheme of things.

Does the DFO have an overall strategy for hatcheries, and if so, can you describe it?

[Rebecca Reid]

The salmonid enhancement program, which has been around for 40 years, has spent a significant amount of time looking at that question, namely, when is enhancement good and when is it not good?

It has created guidelines to ensure that any enhancement activity falls within the acceptable practices, so that you can produce more fish, but you're not endangering the genetic diversity or impacting the stocks of concern.

It is a really important question to ask. The salmonid enhancement program has done a lot of work on it. There is still more work we can do to improve it.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Are there any conclusions being drawn about the size of hatcheries, for instance? Certainly, what we heard in the testimony about the Big Bar landslide was that the great big operation might be the source of more harm than good, and that smaller community-based operations might be the way to go because they can be a little bit more specific to the location you're trying to enhance.

[Rebecca Reid]

Right now, we have a mix of large and small community-based hatcheries, and we have always supported that kind of dual model. Just because you have a big hatchery doesn't mean you're only producing one type of fish. There is a lot of flexibility within those facilities to create different populations of fish that can be enhanced, and in some cases moved to different locations as required.

That is certainly what we're doing right now with Big Bar, because we don't have them in the places we need them. We're transporting brood stock or eggs to other hatcheries and then relocating them where they go back to, what we'd hope would be, their natal stream.

In that way, you can be strategic about those large hatcheries and not just rely on the smaller ones.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

We'll now go to Mr. Bragdon for five minutes or less, please.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to each of the witnesses for your time this evening and your testimony.

I'd like to start by asking Ms. Reid a couple of questions. What is the status of the Pacific salmon secretariat? Have plans been finalized for the creation of the secretariat?

[Rebecca Reid]

You're referring to the one as part of the Pacific salmon strategy?

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Yes.

[Rebecca Reid]

We have created an internal team, which we have staffed. It's quite a small team at this point, but the idea would be—subject to going through the financial processes, Treasury Board submissions and those types of things—to start to build out the secretariat. We would also build on the external piece as well, but it's very early days at this point.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Do you have an estimated time as to how long the process will take to get it up and going?

[Rebecca Reid]

From an internal perspective, it will be a matter of whether we can get the staff in place. We do have a structure in place right now. I can imagine it will be quite a few months to get it fully staffed. From an external perspective it will take longer, because we do need to consult with our partners—with indigenous groups—in a meaningful way, to really talk to them about what the structure would look like and how they would like to be involved. I could see that taking considerably longer to stand up.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Can you tell us the status of the restoration centre of expertise? Have the plans been finalized for its creation?

[Rebecca Reid]

No. I would put that in the same category. We have a number of ideas and strategies that have very recently been accepted and announced. Now we have to do the work to really start to build them out.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Okay.

Do you know what external organizations the department consulted with in the Pacific as it relates specifically to the salmon secretariat or the restoration centre of expertise?

[Rebecca Reid]

Whom did we consult with to build it?

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Yes, to come up with the concept.

[Rebecca Reid]

The department has worked with its stakeholders and indigenous groups for...well, forever. We have regular, ongoing conversations about what is needed, what is required. The B.C. salmon restoration and innovation fund has been very helpful to help us set some priorities. That said, it really is at this point that we've started to reach out and build the right centre, based on what stakeholders and indigenous groups say to us.

We need to do it collectively, together.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Ms. Reid.

Can you tell me clearly who proposed the ideas for the secretariat and the centre of excellence? Where did it come from?

[Rebecca Reid]

We developed the proposal within the department and sought approval for it.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Okay, so it came from in the department.

[Rebecca Reid]

But it was informed externally as well.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

For over a year, the committee has been studying the state of Pacific salmon. We've heard from numerous indigenous and non-indigenous organizations involved in trying to restore wild Pacific salmon. We've been told that the proven methods for restoring stocks are known and available. They just need to be resourced. They haven't been resourced properly to this point.

It seems that the current government's funds, in the federal budget, will basically be reinventing the wheel that we know already exists. Wouldn't these new federal resources be better placed in support of actions restoring salmon stocks than creating more and new innovative structures?

[Rebecca Reid]

That's exactly what we're trying to do. You need to be able to set priorities; you need to do it in a way that considers the views of your stakeholders, your partners, the indigenous groups; and then you need to take action. We have a number of restoration projects and programs on the grounds doing work right now. This work is under way already. There are several examples.

What we need to do is make sure we're using the money in the wisest way to get to those priorities. In that way, we need to reach out and work with others to make sure that the priorities are set and understood and accepted.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Do you feel overall that with the known solutions and recommendations already out there, there's enough of what we already know works being done? Do you feel that enough steps are being taken and enough resources being committed to the recommendations that are well known to everyone in field?

It's a matter of implementation. Do you feel that the practical steps towards implementation to get results have been made, so far?