Fisheries Committee on May 12th, 2021

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of the witnesses for the important work they've been doing on wild salmon.

I'm going to start with a question for Dr. Farrell.

You talked about the importance of devolving local decision-making. Can you elaborate on what you mean?

[Anthony Farrell]

I think Ms. Bergeron just did a fantastic job of explaining how local decision-making can be very effective. I'm not familiar with the details of it, but what I do see as a citizen and member of a number of panels is that there are many players and many voices.

I think one of the beauties of COVID is that we've moved to these virtual meetings. I now see that more voices can come around the table in the future, but, ultimately, in regard to the decisions that have been made at the federal level in Ottawa, I'm not sure that they have a clearer picture of the details than, say, Newfoundland or the Northwest Territories, which are probably going to start raising Arctic char up there as a cultured species. Out in B.C., we're very distant. We have the Rocky Mountains, and, of course, Alberta is going to get all the fish shortly anyway because of global climate change and all those black glaciers melting.

Things will change, but they'll change at the local level. I worked at the local level with DFO. We sat down around a table, and we decided the maximum temperature the Fraser River can reach in the summer when sockeye salmon are moving up in numbers. We said 18°. We went out and tested it, and guess what? Different populations that inhabit the Fraser River have different upper temperature limits. If you're dealing with the ones that are the wimps, the couch potatoes, that go just up to the Harrison River system, put them above 17°, and they're in trouble. Put them at 21°—and it does reach 21° degrees—and they're toast. They're dead. They're dead, so you wouldn't want in-river fishery at that particular stock of fish, and that sort of detail I have worked out through swimming experiments in respirometers to test their cardiac performance.

I'm very passionate about the knowledge that I generate. I believe it's good, sound, solid science. That's part of the decision-making.

First nations have to have a voice.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Speaking to that, I'm really glad you're going there. Obviously, in the budget they announced the development of the new Pacific salmon secretariat and the centre of excellence for restoration. In terms of the government's commitment to reconciliation, case law and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, do you believe that the model should be a government-to-government-to-government model that needs to be actioned and a relationship that needs to be built?

[Anthony Farrell]

I firmly believe that we shouldn't overlap the jurisdictions. Migratory fish are a problem, because if they're in fresh water the province gets jurisdiction and then with migratory, if it's a case of salmon, the federal government gets it.

If you work together you can eliminate those things. I don't see why first nations could not monitor their local environments in and around fish farms. They don't do it now, but why can't they be involved in that? I think the Okanagan Nation Alliance is a fantastic example of being able to rejuvenate sockeye salmon coming up the Columbia River, crossing international boundaries now. It's a success story. Why? Because it's a local phenomenon.

I guess work together is the principle, yes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I really appreciate that.

Chief Smith, could you elaborate too? You heard my question about the new development of the Pacific salmon secretariat, the importance that it's not just top down, that it is a government-to-government-to-government approach, like Dr. Farrell talked about. He talked about the importance of everybody working collaboratively and ensuring that indigenous communities get the support at the local level.

Do you support a model that's applying UNDRIP in principle and that's obviously committed to reconciliation?

[Chief John M. Smith]

Yes, I'm into working together with anybody if it makes things better and healthier and more accommodating. It's difficult when there are three different opinions that don't want to come together and work as a unit. Federal people in Ottawa trying to run a fishery on the Pacific coast, we've always known that was not a very good plan. They've cut the number of fishery personnel in British Columbia, and now they're united with the Coast Guard, and it seems like they're not very interested in fishing.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

In terms of rights, Chief Smith—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm sorry, Mr. Johns. Your time has gone over.

We'll now go to Mr. Mazier for five minutes or less, please.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for coming out this afternoon.

Ms. Bergeron, one of the components to your organization's mission statement includes the sustainable development of sport fishing. Recreational fishing is very important to the people I represent. Can you inform this committee about the important role that recreational fishing has in generating economic benefits that are used to protect species?

[Myriam Bergeron]

Yes, of course.

In five of Quebec's tourism regions, salmon sport fishing generates $50 million a year in direct economic benefits. These are largely reinvested in conservation, and also in wildlife protection, because it's important to ensure that there are enough wildlife protection officers and assistants to do the job everywhere. They are hired by the fishery management legatee organizations.

Sport fishing therefore definitely helps to maintain this system as well as an entire recreational tourism network for accommodation, restaurants, outdoor shops, etc. It is therefore a very significant and sustainable regional economic driver. There are economic considerations, but the sociocultural aspect is also important. Salmon fishing remains very important to the regional communities.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you.

Do you think recreational fishers get enough credit for the good that they do, for all their economic activity and for how they protect and work in a sustainable way?

[Myriam Bergeron]

Part of Quebec's vision is to get the sport fishing community engaged by disseminating information and advertising various activities. These fishers take pride in salmon, beautiful rivers, the state of the environment and the water quality in these rivers. They also take pride in the beautiful landscapes. Everyone benefits.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Perfect. Thank you.

Chief Smith, you mentioned in an op-ed the important role that aquaculture has in your community. You wrote, “We are striving to become self-sufficient.” This is referring to the salmon farms and the beneficial outcomes they have for your community.

Can you explain how salmon farming is helping your community to become self-sufficient?

[Chief John M. Smith]

We have a partnership with Grieg whereby they share some of the benefits of growing the fish. They pay us rental for the rafts in the water and they hire some of our people to work there. We do some contract jobs. Now we're taking over a net cleaning business, which will provide another four people with regular, good-paying jobs.

As I said, we're building a new community so we need every penny we can get. The amount of money we get from the government just doesn't sustain that.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Were you consulted by the federal government before they announced the plan to phase out open-net fish farming?

[Chief John M. Smith]

No. We were not among the ones they talked to. That scared us to death because we're a little northwest of where they did all this closing of farms.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Is that concerning to you that the government didn't come around—

[Chief John M. Smith]

Yes.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

—didn't consult everybody it was impacting?

[Chief John M. Smith]

There should have been more. We were surprised at how quickly they did that. I think they were told by their own scientists, “Don't do that.” Every time we get reports at our meetings in British Columbia, the fisheries scientists say, “There's little or no effect of farm fish on the wild stocks.” They couldn't make it any more clear. Then all of a sudden, bang, bang, bang. It really hurt. I live in Campbell River. We had a couple of plants here that are just going to suffer and maybe not even stay open. We're talking about 7,000 workers in the fish farm industry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to the witnesses on this important study.

My question is for Chief Smith. I want to follow up on the former member's questions.

Chief, could you give me a monetary number for the economic value footprint of fish farming specifically to your community? If you don't have it, maybe you could forward it to us.

[Chief John M. Smith]

The rental payments we get annually work out to.... We have three farms, so it works out to about $300,000 or $400,000 for them. We don't really want to divulge how much we get to the other players, but it's a substantial amount. It would be even more substantial if we got another farm.