Fisheries Committee on May 26th, 2021

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

You're pretty close. Thank you, Mr. Cormier. Well done.

Thank you, Ms. Reid.

Now we're going to go to Madame Gill for two and a half minutes or less.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to ask questions about inspections.

A number of committee members have said that two violations out of 41 concerned prawn size. If memory serves, Ms. Gallant said this happened over a three-year period.

How many inspections take place annually over the four weeks of fishing?

Mr. Davis, Ms. Reid or Ms. Gallant can answer.

[Rebecca Reid]

I would like to ask Nicole to respond, please.

[Nicole Gallant]

I can look at the statistics. I don't have them at my fingertips at the moment, but they are on my computer. I just have to open them up. Right now I can give you an example for a one-day period.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

If you like, you can send the information to the committee. That way, we could continue the discussion. I just wanted to have an idea of the number of inspections.

Ms. Reid said several times that no changes have been made. With all due respect, had no changes been made, we would not be here right now.

You talked about prawns taking a very long time to thaw. How much time is needed? Fishers told us that it takes about two minutes.

I was wondering how many inspections were carried out annually. That should help us figure out how much time is spent thawing and measuring prawns every year. That does not depend on the freezing.

Based on the current protocol, how have you managed to accelerate the measuring of prawns?

[Rebecca Reid]

I think, Madame Gill, that's exactly the point. The industry came up with a methodology to rapidly thaw the prawns that DFO found to be acceptable, so we could work with them. The fishery officers could inspect readily and could look at the prawns.

That methodology—which perhaps the next panel will speak about—really does address the concern that we raised with the organization. They were worried about what that meant. We worked together with—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

However, they were talking to us about the previous method. They actually told us that it took two minutes or two and a half minutes to thaw them. They told us that before the discussions to change the protocol or the methodology took place. I don't know whether this is a satisfactory time, as it is not up to me to assess it.

How has the possibility to carry out inspections improved in terms of time? How much time is being saved?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Richard Bragdon]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Richard Bragdon]

Thank you, Madam Gill. Just give a quick response, please, Ms. Reid.

[Rebecca Reid]

We have an agreed-upon protocol that both industry and the DFO have accepted, so I think the solution has been arrived at for the season. I think we have addressed the concern that was raised by both the officers and industry.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Richard Bragdon]

Thank you, Ms. Reid.

Now we will go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes or less.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Reid, you talked about an increase in tubbing. Can you talk about the percentages of the increase and what the numbers look like?

[Rebecca Reid]

I cannot, specifically.

I would ask Nicole to speak to that aspect, please.

[Nicole Gallant]

I actually think that Mr. Davis would probably be better to speak to it.

[Neil Davis]

Mr. Chair, yes, I am happy to.

We don't collect data that will give us a definitive answer, but we do have estimates from industry. The estimate from industry is that it has gone from up to about 10% of the catch last year, with an expectation that it may grow substantially again this year to as high as something like 20%.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Wow, so we're doing this whole thing based on an estimate of 10% to 20%, potentially. It's an estimate. We don't even know. You're not even keeping track. There is no report, no information.

We talk about a protocol agreement in place with the industry right now. My understanding is that three tubs would be readily available for inspection, and that if the prawns are undersized, you would inspect more.

That sounds fair. Everybody would be fine, I think, moving forward, if those were the rules of engagement for decades to come, but that protocol isn't good enough or we actually wouldn't be here. I can assure you of that. The industry wants more definitive answers on this issue.

My concern is that the minister cited conservation on this issue, yet it isn't a conservation issue. I'm asking you this: Will you back down on putting pressure on the industry and stick with the protocol in place right now in years to come, or is the minister actually pressuring you to keep putting pressure on the industry, keep placing uncertainty and unfairness on these families and keep the coast at risk because of two violations?

[Rebecca Reid]

I would say that the prawn industry is economically very important to British Columbians and to local communities, so there is no question about our interest in ensuring that we have a sustainable fishery.

The long-term solution is simply something that we need to work with industry to arrive at. We did this year, and I'm certain we will in the future. We need to collaborate with them and work with them on this issue, so I think we can. We need some time to talk about it further. We have a solution right now and we need to continue to work with them, as we do when issues are raised on any matter of concern.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Richard Bragdon]

Thank you, Ms. Reid. Thank you, Mr. Johns.

Now we're going to go to Mr. Mazier for five minutes or less.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Reid, this committee has heard many times that the decisions made by the DFO without consultation are having damaging impacts on the people in the communities that depend on Canadian fisheries. However, you mentioned the important role of consultation and collaboration in your remarks. Does the DFO have any standards for consulting with parties affected by DFO decisions?

[Rebecca Reid]

We have consultation practices. We have a regular advisory process for each of the industries, and we work collaboratively with them. We have managers who specialize in particular species, and they work and develop relationships with industry representatives and others. In that way, I think we have a very rigorous consultative process across the board. In this case, we have a strong advisory and consultative process in place.

Thank you.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

As a follow-up question, does DFO have any standards for consulting with the parties affected by DFO decisions?

[Rebecca Reid]

Regarding standards, I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for, but I will say that we have regular advisory processes with industry. We also meet with others, such as the recreational sector and indigenous groups, on issues of importance and concern. We have people assigned to the task, so in that way we have regular advisory processes that allow for this consultative process to occur.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

How does DFO determine if they've consulted enough?

[Rebecca Reid]

We work with industry all the time; there's a back-and-forth about this. If industry has concerns, we are responsive to them. We want to work with them and we want to have a sustainable fishery. In that way, I'm not hearing any concerns that we haven't been consulting enough with industry.