Fisheries Committee on May 26th, 2021

[Rebecca Reid]

Perhaps it would be useful to talk about the protocol that was agreed to, which addresses some of those concerns—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Well, I would like an answer to that question first, please.

[Rebecca Reid]

That really is my attempt to answer the question. There are a number of issues around it.

You have a frozen tub of prawns. You need to be able to assess the size. You can't do that if they're tucked into that frozen sea-water, so you need to be able to thaw the tub quickly enough so that it's effective. There are questions around how that works when you're on a boat. There are those types of issues.

A number of concerns were raised about how this was going to work, such as whether the product was “readily available” and what would happen to the product afterwards, because once it's warmed up or thawed, it's going to be ruined. There were questions of that nature.

I think the outcome—the protocol that was agreed to—finds a solution that addresses some of those concerns, and it was acceptable for both DFO and the industry reps.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I don't know that we've heard from the industry reps that they have landed on something that's accessible. It has been a couple of weeks since we spoke to them, so maybe there have been some new developments. We'll be interested, because they represent our next panel. I hope I hear from them that they agree with you.

Still, tubbing has been around for a long time, and you've been thawing the tubs out on the decks within a couple of minutes for a long time. Tubbing may have gone up as a percentage of the total catch, but still, how many inspections would you do in, say, the course of a season?

Also, historically how many infractions did you find with respect to the size limit?

[Rebecca Reid]

With your permission, I ask Nicole Gallant to respond concerning the enforcement measures.

[Nicole Gallant, Acting Regional Director, Conservation and Protection, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you.

Fishery officers inspect the commercial prawn fleet throughout the season, and rarely do we actually have to thaw or have we seen tubbing take place on board the vessels. Usually the product we're seeing is live product that is easy to measure and product that is finger-packed in boxes. Rarely have we seen tubbing.

As to undersized product that we have come across and/or product that we're concerned about, in the last three years we have run into about two violations out of 41 violations per year.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I see. There were 41 violations, but only two of them involved size.

I guess we would find general agreement that the size matters to the fishers, because the little ones have no real value to them. They have no incentive to keep undersized prawns, because people don't want to buy them. I don't know if that's a fair question for you or Ms. Reid.

[Rebecca Reid]

I think that from a sustainability perspective we agree that undersized prawns are something we want to avoid. Certainly there are management measures put in place—other ones, aside from just inspection directly—to avoid those undersized prawns, but there's also an obligation for us to enforce the regulations, and the size limit is something that is important, so when officers encounter a situation, they will take action.

I think there's general agreement that larger prawns are better for the market and certainly better for the sustainability of the stocks. That's why we're inspecting to ensure there's no illegal capture of those undersized fish.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Richard Bragdon]

Thank you, Ms. Reid, and thank you, Mr. Hardie.

We're going to move to Madame Gill for six minutes or less.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses appearing today for providing us with answers. We really appreciate it.

My question is about the history of the issue we are discussing today.

On the Atlantic side, users of the Cap-aux-Meules Harbour are experiencing difficulties that are jeopardizing fishing itself this year.

When did you at the department start discussing concerns you had about that type of fishing? I would like you to provide us with four dates: the date when you discussed this; the date when the decision was made; the date when you notified the fishers; and the date when fishing begins.

I'm addressing myself to Ms. Reid, Ms. Gallant or, of course, Mr. Davis.

[Rebecca Reid]

Thank you, Madame Gill.

I think I'll ask Neil to describe the process as it occurred.

[Neil Davis]

Thanks, Rebecca.

As Rebecca mentioned in her opening remarks, this issue emerged somewhat inadvertently through conversations on a related topic between DFO and industry on matters of packaging and labelling. In a conversation with that group in late January, there was discussion about the increasing importance of tubbing, particularly with the pandemic and its effects on international markets for other product forms, and I think the expectation on the part of industry that—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I don't mean to interrupt, Mr. Davis, but, since we don't have much time, could you give us approximate dates?

You say that discussions were held in late January. When did you make the decision?

[Neil Davis]

We began meeting with industry in early February when they raised this issue to our attention. Through the course of probably six, seven, eight or nine meetings between February and April, we had a discussion about potential options that led to basically our support for the protocol that was developed by the Pacific Prawn Fishermen's Association in April.

The association communicated that out to their members in April. I think the members may be aware that then, early in May, the minister also issued a news release that confirmed that support for the broader public.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

When did the fishing season begin, Mr. Davis? Can you give me an approximate date?

[Neil Davis]

The fishery opened on May 14.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

You say that industry representatives were consulted. However, according to what we heard at our previous meetings, it would appear that they were not consulted.

I want to make sure I understand. You say that you met at the request of industry representatives, and that they raised concerns over the freezing and preservation methods for prawns on ships. Did industry representatives themselves ask for a meeting and raise concerns?

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that is how I understood your answer.

[Neil Davis]

You're right. The industry did raise concerns, given the concern that DFO had raised about the potential for not meeting our regulatory requirements. We very quickly acknowledged that this was an issue of great concern to the industry and immediately began this series of meetings with them to talk about the nature of the issue and what we might be able to do to resolve it both in the immediate term and also in the longer term. Hence, that series of meetings essentially began immediately after we had heard from them about those concerns.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

You are telling me that fishers' representatives were concerned about not complying with the rules. I will give you a choice of answers. Was it rather when you talked about it that they felt affected, as they were concerned about their fishing season?

Once again, I have not obtained a clear answer, and that is why I am asking you again. Did they tell you they were concerned about breaking the rules, and is that way you sat down together to resolve the issue and find solutions? That is my understanding, and I want to know whether that is indeed what you are saying.

[Neil Davis]

The issue was raised in the course of initial discussions that happened on another matter. When that issue was raised, both the department and industry recognized that there was a problem. Industry expressed their concern about the possibility that what they expected to do as part of their—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

What is that possibility? You do not specify. You are talking to me about a concern, but you are not defining it. What were the industry representatives concerned about?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Richard Bragdon]

Thank you, Madame Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will have other opportunities to ask questions.

I thank the witnesses.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Richard Bragdon]

Thank you, Madame Gill. Maybe they'll be able to respond in a future session.

Now we will go over to Mr. Johns for six minutes or less.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My concern is that I still haven't heard a good reason why you reinterpreted the regulations. I just want a quick answer, yes or no, that you're doing this because of the size. You're worried that you can't access the tubbing because you can't thaw it out and look at it, and you're worried about size. Is that what you're measuring?