Evidence of meeting #32 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was reid.
A video is available from Parliament.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm sorry, but I would have to disagree with the characterization of reinterpreting the rules. The rules have been in place, and we haven't changed them at all.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Okay.
Your concern is around size. You're checking for size. That's what you're looking for.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Our concern is whether the product is readily available for inspection. What we're trying to inspect is size.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Right. You had 41 violations on the whole coast for the prawn fishery, and only two of them were size-related. Can you clarify?
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I will turn to Nicole to talk about the stats.
Acting Regional Director, Conservation and Protection, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That's correct. On average, there are 41 violations per year in the prawn fishery. The prawn fishery is a very short fishery, lasting about four to five weeks, and on average there are about two violations per year. We have not seen one in 2020 or 2021 at the moment.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I find it deeply alarming that with the reinterpretation, or let's call it maybe the rules that have been in place, the prawn fishers have been served notice. This is upsetting the livelihood of people up and down our coast because of two violations a year on average. This is completely unacceptable, as far as I can say.
Can I ask why the person who is most knowledgeable and experienced in overseeing the management of this prawn fishery, who has been overseeing it for almost 15 years, is not here in attendance to answer questions?
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm sorry; who are you talking about, Mr. Johns?
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Right now I would be asking about the person who has been overseeing the prawn fishery. It's Laurie.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Do you mean Laurie Convey?
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We do try to bring senior people to these meetings. Neil Davis is the regional director for fisheries management, and I thought it appropriate that he be the witness for this morning.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Mr. Davis, you talked about conservation being an issue, and size limit. Can you explain why this is a conservation issue? Several issues come to mind. Where is the stock assessment report to support the allegation that conservation is an issue in this fishery?
Second, why is there no science representative present as a witness who could provide clarification of this allegation? Also, could you advise this committee about which scientific report or stock assessment advised the end of tubbing?
Acting Regional Director, Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Sure, I can certainly help with those questions.
On your last point, to be clear, again, we have not banned tubbing. If tubbing can occur in a way that allows for the size limit to be readily determined, then it can proceed. We are pursuing discussions with industry about what our options around that might be for the longer term.
With respect to the role of size limits in ensuring the sustainability of the fishery, or whether conservation is a concern, I think regardless of the fishery, we actually prefer to manage more proactively so that conservation of the stock does not become a concern. In the case of the prawn fishery, the role of the size limit helps in that regard, because it allows for the prawns to reproduce—or it at least supports them to grow large enough to reproduce—before they are harvested. It also allows them to grow to a larger size, which has more economic value per pound. Both of these are good things and both have enjoyed the support of industry since their introduction in the eighties.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Do you have any reports that can back up your concerns? Can you provide this committee with reports on what I just asked about, around the concerns?
Also, do you not see tubbing as making the product “readily available”?
Acting Regional Director, Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It may be, but we have not had that conversation in more detail.
As Rebecca was suggesting earlier, tubbing was—at least to the department's knowledge—not a frequent practice until recently. For issues like, “What is a tub?”, “What's its size?”, “What's its shape?” and “What colour is it?”, there is no standardization, so we can't make a subsequent determination of whether the product can be made readily determinable in a way that will meet the needs of our enforcement officers.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
You're saying right now that you've been consulting the industry. Industry is saying that they weren't consulted until months after they were served notice around this change. We can't get a clear answer as to whether it was readily available or that it's always been in place. The changes that were coming.... Now you're saying we don't even know if there are changes coming.
People are looking for answers. They're looking for answers from government. I am not hearing good answers.
What are you offering? What is it that you're suggesting industry do?
We were hoping today that you'd be telling us about some of the recommendations and some of the suggestions that they could apply, moving forward, so they can get this issue off their plates and get back to fishing and feed their families.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Richard Bragdon
We have time for a 15-second answer. It has to be a quick one.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We do have an interim protocol in place that was developed by industry. Using that, we can discuss practices, going forward, and there—
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, it's not the status quo. They came up with a protocol to respond to the concerns, and we agreed that it was acceptable, so to me—
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Richard Bragdon
Thank you, Ms. Reid. Thank you, Mr. Johns.
We'll now move on to our second round of questions.
Mr. Calkins, you have five minutes or less.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you, Mr. Acting Chair, in your new role.
I want to thank the Department of Fisheries and Oceans for doing something that not even the COVID-19 pandemic could do, which is to bring the four political parties together in unanimous agreement about something that appears to be an egregious overstep on behalf of the government. I've never seen, in the 15 years I've been an MP, an instance when absolutely nobody among the elected officials sitting around the table is in agreement with what the government has done. I have heard no justification that would change anybody's mind at this point.
Here is my first question. Is there any indication that prawn populations are in decline because of tubbing?
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
First of all, to the committee, we are doing our best to respond to your questions. I am sensing a lot of frustration and concern.
The issue around tubbing is about products being readily available. That regulation is across the board, so it's not just related to prawns. It applies in this case, and it was raised as part of a separate conversation because tubbing is becoming more common. It was raised as an issue in connection with our need to make sure we can inspect the product and how best to do that. That led to the conversation about whether or not inspection is possible with tubs and ultimately to the development of the interim protocol.
From my perspective, the issue was raised; it was discussed appropriately with the association, and a solution, which we agreed to, was found. We need to continue to work together.
This is a very typical process when working with industry reps. Issues are raised, we work on them, and we do our best to resolve them.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
That doesn't answer my question, Ms. Reid. My question was this: Is there any indication that prawn populations are in decline because of tubbing?