Fisheries Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Bragdon is next

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, to my colleagues on the other side, all of us want to get to a solution here. Everyone wants to move towards finding a solution, but going way back to the beginning of the elevation of this crisis that has been happening for a long time, and obviously augmenting this fall and even prior to this fall, we have repeatedly raised questions in the House, wanting answers and clarifications.

Then there was an emergency debate, and now we have a special study, yet some of the most important players and people with the ability to make decisions and help get to a resolution are not appearing before this committee, which was set up to do this study based on an emergency situation that was happening. Then to be accused of somehow stalling and to hear “you just don't want to get ahead with the good work of the committee”.... I think it's a priority of any committee to make sure that the key decision-makers are at that committee table to help provide answers and clarity around some of the situations we're facing.

The witnesses we've heard from so far were, yes, wonderful and good witnesses, and this does nothing at all to take away from those witnesses. We'll be glad to hear more input from the witnesses at any time, but here's the issue. The issue is that right now we need to have the minister come before this committee right away. If it is an emergency and it has seized the government and the government is seized with this issue, the minister should be seized with getting to this committee and providing clarity.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Bragdon.

Mr. Calkins is next.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm not going to belabour this too much longer, but again, if Mr. Johns' argument is that this committee ought not to be interfering, well, we're not interfering. Our job as opposition members is to hold the government to account—at least, with some opposition members, it's to hold government to account; with some opposition members, it seems, it's to hold the government up.

Yes, it's a nation-to-nation discussion, but that's the way democracy works. We hold that government to account. Taking away this notion from the motion, as I said, undermines that compelling argument for the minister to appear.

If Mr. Beech suggests that the minister is available—and I'll take him at his word—I suppose he could probably get her on the phone right now and put her in the committee room as we speak. However, that would be an unreasonable thing to request.

Thursday was not unreasonable, but now we've moved it until the 20th, after the break week, with no assurances for certain that the minister will find her way here.

In good faith, so that our witnesses understand, these things do happen from time to time, regardless of who the governing party is.

I would be more than happy, Mr. Chair.... Our three witnesses today, if we do run out of time, would be more than welcome to join in at a future committee meeting on the same business. I would welcome them to come back and at least be part of the question-and-answer portion of a future meeting. There is no reason to suggest, other than taking a little of their time, that they would not be welcome to this committee. For any member to suggest that this is stalling testimony that we wouldn't like to hear is pure balderdash. It's simply not true.

We have three very knowledgeable witnesses before the committee today. However, Mr. Chair, the one knowledgeable witness we want to hear from is the minister, so let's get on with that and get this done and make sure that she comes to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you very, very much.

I don't want to belabour this point, but just to respond, I am not at all threatening to filibuster the meetings. I actually want to see these meetings continue.

My point, Mr. Battiste, was that should the minister not show up—should the minister decide to turn her heels on us or ignore this committee—then I shall come back with another motion calling on her to appear after the deadline. Until then, should this motion proceed—and I can count—this work will continue, because this is important work. However, so is hearing from the minister and her department officials and ensuring that the Government of Canada is doing its job. Right now, that does not seem to be the case from any vantage point in Atlantic Canada, whether it is indigenous, non-indigenous or provincial governments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Williamson.

Madame Gill is next.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

My view is that this is not leverage, but rather an assurance. The Minister is not required to appear before the Committee if that is her decision. No matter, the given date is November 20.

This simply assures us that the minister could come to testify. I imagine that everyone agrees with that. We must simply view it as an assurance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Gill.

Go ahead, Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Chair, we've now heard different perspectives on this situation. Again, I assure the committee that I do want to hear that the minister is coming. I understand that with Mr. Williamson's amended motion, the minister will come to testify before the given date or they will step up their action.

I want to say something, Mr. Chair. The Conservatives might want to use next week to reach out to the people of Sipekne'katik. They haven't heard from the Conservatives to date, despite the situation they're in. Even though the Conservatives asked the Prime Minister to get out there to sit down with them, they might want to try that themselves.

I hope we can vote on this motion and get rolling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

Seeing no other hands up for interventions, I wonder, Nancy, if we could go to a vote on Mr. Johns' amendment, please.

[The Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The vote is on the amendment of Mr. Johns to delete the second paragraph of the motion.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We will now vote on the motion as amended.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Mr. Chair, would you please read the entire motion as amended?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Nancy, could you look after that, please?

[The Clerk]

Yes. Here is the motion as amended:

That the committee request the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard to appear for no fewer than two hours as a witness for the committee’s current study titled “Implementation of Mi’Kmaq Treaty Fishing Rights to Support a Moderate Livelihood”; that the Minister appear no later than November 20, 2020; and That the committee suspend future meetings of its current study until the Minister appears as requested, with the departmental officials requested.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Nancy, one second, please.

The amendment that Mr. Johns put forward and was voted on just now is to remove the part that says the committee will suspend until the minister appears, so I believe that is stricken from—

[The Clerk]

You are correct. I went by the PDF that I could not modify myself. I'm sorry about that.

I will read it again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, if you would, please.

[The Clerk]

Here is the amended motion:

That the committee request the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard to appear for no fewer than two hours as a witness for the committee’s current study titled “Implementation of Mi’Kmaq Treaty Fishing Rights to Support a Moderate Livelihood”; and that the Minister appear no later than November 20, 2020.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, we have heard the motion as amended.

Nancy, will you do the call for the vote, please?

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 11; nays: 0)

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, I believe I heard from the Conservative opposition that they would like to get the witnesses back, so we should get clarification on whether we can have the three witnesses back to conclude their questioning before the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Morrissey, I'll get the clerk to get in touch with the witnesses tomorrow or the next day to see if they are available to come back on another date.

In saying that, I will apologize to the three witnesses. The contribution they made while they were here was, again, most informative, and I would certainly support having them come back, as I'm sure everyone around the table would.

In saying this, we've run completely out of time and over time. I have to adjourn right now. Another committee is waiting on the very room we're using.

Thank you to everybody for your participation tonight.

The meeting is adjourned.